Maybe this is a discussion for The Bar, I don't know. I have heard some performances here, recently and in the past, that were nothing short of atrocious, and would be pointed out as such on practically every music board on the 'net EXCEPT THIS ONE where they garnered 100% praise and 'attaboys' . I think it's because this board has cultivated a very warm and close-knit community who would rather lie (or even die) rather than risk damaging the fragile ego of some long-standing, self-proclaimed 'master' keyboardist, member. This is especially true if that member has a history of being very helpful and a solid contributor in OTHER ways. I think the other (sort of legitimate) reason is a fear of discouraging other non-professional players from posting their music (not good!), which is at least one good reason for having a forum such as this.

So, what's the best course of action? Do we adopt a policy of "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything", OR, in the hopes of helping someone by giving them an honest evaluation and critique, you 'TELL IT LIKE IT IS', albeit in a supportive and respectful manner. It's tough telling a old, experienced, but totally talent-less player, how to improve when you know down in your heart he CAN'T, or WON'T (mainly because he doesn't believe you and feels pretty secure about his skills). Whew! Tough choice. What do you think?

chas

I'm not touching this one.
On another forum of which I'm a member, the posters' bios, visible to the left of the post, have a choice of "I welcome positive criticism", or "I want encouragement". Something to that nature anyway--I forget the actual wording.
The bad news is that very seldom anyone actually makes a critical comment.
I don't know the answer, except that I personally want to hear criticism. That's the way you learn.

That's easy for you to say 'cause you actually ARE good and don't seem to need to remind people of it. I'm talking about the people that are BAD but don't appear to recognize it and continue to proclaim their skills as a keyboardist (and in some cases, also their vocal skills). Somehow, it just grates me the wrong way. I rate my own skills as slightly below average amateur. I do think that I play 'in time' though, and occasionally even hit the right chords. Beyond that, eeehhhhh. If I knew (cold) as many songs as Russ or Don, and could pop them off on moments notice IN ANY KEY, then I might raise my rating a notch. There was a reason (aside from not wanting to be poor) that I chose NOT to be a PROFESSIONAL musician; talent was one of them. Thank goodness I was able to recognize my mediocrity early on .

chas

At the site Don referenced, the exact wording is: Critique Preference: Constructive Criticism Welcomed.

Nothing wrong with constructive criticism, and when I received it, I always did my best to utilize the information put forth by others, regardless of their skill level.

That said, there have been times when I posted a song that after hearing it again, I wished I wouldn't have posted it at all. I'm a hack musician at best, though there are those that think I'm pretty damned good. I totally relied on my vocals during a live performance, which was my strong point until the day I retired. I still record a song once in a while, just to retain my sanity since retiring (Not every day is a good sailing day). My latest recording was the Twelfth Of Never, which was performed by a number of artists, however, Johnny Mathis is the one I always idolized in this respect. To me, he was among the greatest singers of all time.

Now, when I hear one of those horrendous songs posted, I try to find something positive in the rendition posted, and for the most part I can, such as good right hand chops, great style selection, creativity, etc..., as many of the posters are good musicians. A significant number of them, however, are marginal singers at best, and some make me cringe when I hear them sing, therefore, I usually do not comment on their vocals under these circumstances. Ironically, when I first met DonM he said he was not much of a singer, but I could hear incredible quality in his vocals and urged him to do more. He has his own, very unique, style of singing that only a handful of professionals have managed to master. DNJ and Uncle Dave also have excellent vocal skills as well as entertainment skills, IMO, both of which I have seen during live performances.

When I was a youngster, my parents always said to us that "If you don't have anything good to say about someone, don't say anything at all." So, in that light, I usually can find something good about everyone's musical submissions, regardless of their skill level.

All the best,

Gary

That's easy for you to say 'cause you actually ARE good

Seems like you answered your own question! I know, after my last review, I'll think hard about posting in the future.

what qualifies ANYONE to judge?..
now there's an answer I would like to hear.
90% of people here won't or have ever posted a dam thing...but yet they will offer advice from their bedroom so called studios when in fact have never been on a stage in front of people making a full time living supporting their families or themselves. Mr. Know it Alls don't impress me, ...but what does impress me is when someone posts their work, songs, demos, etc, to show what they are talking about to back up their statements!! ....sorry if this post was a bit hard no harm intended just being very honest here agree or not....

I am done venting..I'll duck now

Man it's hot in Ohio

It's all "unspectacular preparation for glorious presentation".

Donny, there are no qualifications to make these judgements. In this instance, fellow musicians and entertainers are merely stating their opinions, which is perfectly acceptable in most instances.

Gary

Thats all well and good gary but does it really help someone?