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#452974 - 06/02/18 03:34 AM Comping My Own Vocals
Bernie9 Offline
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Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5508
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
What is the best source of knowledge on this subject? I know there are Youtube vids and books, but many of you are already skilled at this, and I don't want to through a lot of fluff getting to it. Back in my church days, I would sing and play the organ for choir practice, but it was not comping, but duplicating the melody. That is no problem for me, but I don't think it is the accepted way, is it?

Now I can't be as good at it as many of you, but it never is too late to start. BTW, the only thing I do now is to sing while chording left hand, take an instrument lead, and come back in.
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#452975 - 06/02/18 04:57 AM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: Bernie9]
shueymusic Offline
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Loc: Lebanon, PA
Vocal comping in a DAW?

I use Presonus Studio One 3.5 as my DAW. Vocal comping, using many takes to get the best vocal from many takes. You set a loop point... give yourself enough of an intro... sing the phrase as many times as you need... stop recording.

In this program, it is really easy to comp. You highlight the material in each take that you want. Very simple if that is what you are talking about.
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#452977 - 06/02/18 05:51 AM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: Bernie9]
Bernie9 Offline
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Registered: 09/21/02
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Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
Thanks Jonathan, but I am speaking live vocal performance over a style accomp.. I want more involvement than a Karaoke rendition. I envision singing melody with left hand piano and right hand stabs, arps, or something. I would then play second verse as instrumental as usual, then come back in with my vocal at the bridge. This is only one example, depending on the song.

I am only trying to get used to playing and singing at the same time, and since I would start with very familiar songs, I guess the right hand use while singing is the first question.

Thanks for your response, Jonathon, as you are well versed in this, to be sure.
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#452980 - 06/02/18 06:44 AM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: Bernie9]
cgiles Offline
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Registered: 09/29/05
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Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Originally Posted By Bernie9
I envision singing melody with left hand piano and right hand stabs, arps, or something.


Hi Bernie, that's what I thought you meant. I know lots of trained pianists (keyboardist) who have that problem. I think the reason is that, unless you're studying jazz or are essentially self-taught, it's just a part of formal music instruction that's NOT TAUGHT. For a lot of musicians, it just comes naturally; they sing a phrase and just 'hear' a 'comp' phrase that would compliment or accent it. Hard, but not impossible, to learn at a late stage in your musical career. I could only suggest two things:

1. Get a musician that is skilled at this to show you a few 'tricks'.

2. Find some commercial arrangements that incorporate what you envision, and listen, study, and practice what they're doing.

It'll take some time but once you discover the technique, practice, practice, practice until is feels 'natural' and almost unconscious.

chas
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#452981 - 06/02/18 06:56 AM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: cgiles]
Bernie9 Offline
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Registered: 09/21/02
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Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
That helps, Chas, thanks. Be it good or bad, I am self taught, so not regimated and can use my own intuition, as you suggested. My timing is spot on, so I can concentrate on riffs or fill ins. By what you say, this is not an exact science anyway.

Thanks
Bernie
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#452984 - 06/02/18 07:14 AM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: Bernie9]
tony mads usa Offline
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Registered: 01/16/02
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Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Originally Posted By Bernie9
... By what you say, this is not an exact science anyway.
Thanks
Bernie


It absolutely is not an exact science, Bernie ... It's all what you feel ... As chas suggested, play recordings of vocalists and listen to what it going on BEHIND them ... the right hand can take the place of a back up vocals group, horn fills, or just add some chord extensions ...
Just experiment and play ...

I occasionally perform with another vocalist or sax player, so I often practice just what I might play 'behind them' with my right hand ...
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#452986 - 06/02/18 07:21 AM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: Bernie9]
travlin'easy Offline
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Watch Don Mason in action, he does it all the time with his guitar licks performed with his right hand.

Gary
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#452988 - 06/02/18 07:40 AM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: Bernie9]
Bernie9 Offline
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Registered: 09/21/02
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Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
Tony: Now you're talkin.

Gary: I am both enthralled and horrified while listening to Don. It almost stopped my ambitions cold, at the thought of trying to play like that(just kidding-not).
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#452992 - 06/02/18 08:53 AM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: Bernie9]
cgiles Offline
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Registered: 09/29/05
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Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Bernie, you've opened up a great topic, one that's probably not discussed enough. Gary's right....sort of. Don is a good example of ACCENTING (ie. playing riffs AROUND the vocals) as opposed to pure COMPING which is more playing BEHIND the vocals. BB King is a great example of ACCENTING. Pianist in Big Bands tend to do BOTH. Best statement so far...."It's not an exact science". Critical listening and analysis of what the 'masters' are doing is probably the best (maybe only) approach to learning this 'inexact science'. BTW, playing with other musicians using only 'fake sheets' will force you to learn what to do smile.

chas
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#452994 - 06/02/18 09:00 AM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: Bernie9]
DonM Offline
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Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
I'm trying to remember how I learned to do what I do in this instance.
I know I always have my right hand "over" the same chords that my left hand is playing.
Generally I sing a line and then play some sort of "answer" fill. Only in the past few years have a learned to actually play more than a chord while I'm actually singing.
Start by just playing the notes in the chord one at a time, in time of course. Experiment to see what other notes out of the chord sound good when you play them. You will often find that the flatted third of the chord sounds good, perhaps sliding from it to the third. Then experiment with the sixth note of the chord. It gets easier the more you do it.
Also, listen to a recording of the song you are playing, hear what the "signature" riffs are and learn to play them. The intros are especially important. I almost never use a factory intro; instead I play a line from the melody of the song, or actually try to play something close to the original intro.
Now if I had to actually play much with the left hand, I would turn into a blubbering idiot. smile Hope this helps a little.
P.S. I just saw Chas post and he is exactly right, although as I mentioned, I'm working on actual comping more. I don't have a problem coming behind someone else, but it's a lot harder to do it while you are singing.


Edited by DonM (06/02/18 09:02 AM)
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#452998 - 06/02/18 09:51 AM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: Bernie9]
montunoman Offline
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Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 3208
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Great topic!

Bernie lots of great suggestions so far. Let me just describe one approach: It's called "filling in the holes" . This concept was first brought to my attention by a drum teacher actually. His name is Steve Houghton and he was playing in Woody Herman's big when he was still in high school. The guy can play!

Anyways, maybe start with a blues tune like "Kansas City"

Sing the opening line "I'm going to Kansas City-Kansas Here I come"

After you sing that, you then have two bars in which you can fill in that space. Try all sorts of approaches: busy blue scale runs, simple blue scale runs, rhythmic chords stabs, combination of chords and runs.....

You can do this with any tune.... just fill in the "holes"

So in other words, when there is a space in the melody line, you’re going to "fill in the holes"

Hope this makes sense- have fun!

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#453000 - 06/02/18 09:58 AM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: Bernie9]
travlin'easy Offline
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Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15563
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Kansas City is a great tune to use for this technique.

All the best,

Gary cool
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#453004 - 06/02/18 11:57 AM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: Bernie9]
Bernie9 Offline
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Registered: 09/21/02
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Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
Thank you all for your help. "Filling in the holes" cuts right to the heart of it. Thanks, Don, for the specifics, and I notice you always fill yours real good. One question is: To what extent is it permissible to duplicate the melody line? The easiest thing for me to do is sing in the same time as I would play, jumping the beat or lagging like Sinatra, to give it a live feel. I most always use full left hand sound for movement to fill in with like a ninth/-9/major. I just don't want to do it if it is going to sound amateurish.
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#453005 - 06/02/18 12:24 PM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: Bernie9]
cgiles Offline
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Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Bernie, one last thing. Comping to an arranger is a little different than say, comping in a piano trio (bass and drums). With the arranger, there will be less 'holes to fill' and it's important that you not COMPETE with the arranger (IOW, don't fill holes that aren't there smile ). That's why, in most instances, Don's approach of SUPPLEMENTING the arrangement is usually the best approach. Also, EVERY hole doesn't need to be filled. Miles Davis said it best, "sometimes what you DON'T play is as important as what you play" or words to that effect.

Interesting side note: BB King said (in an interview) that he just can't play and sing at the same time....didn't stop him from becoming a legend.

chas
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#453007 - 06/02/18 12:32 PM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: Bernie9]
Bernie9 Offline
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Registered: 09/21/02
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Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
Duly noted sir, and thank you
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#453008 - 06/02/18 01:11 PM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: Bernie9]
tony mads usa Offline
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Registered: 01/16/02
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Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Bernie ... Playing a melody line after singing it is ok if it is a 'call and answer' type of song ... Personally, I do not like it when someone is singing and playing the same melody line at the same time ...
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#453010 - 06/02/18 01:24 PM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: Bernie9]
Bernie9 Offline
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Registered: 09/21/02
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Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
Thanks Tony. That was my question and now my answer.
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#453011 - 06/02/18 01:31 PM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: Bernie9]
tony mads usa Offline
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Happy to help ...
Good luck ...
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#453012 - 06/02/18 03:03 PM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: tony mads usa]
bruno123 Offline
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Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4912
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
Let me tell you about Bernie’s best two parts.
1-He is humble, and he is not timid about asking for help. .
2-He really loves music.

“Filling in the holes” Yes and a bit more. In Latin music they are very careful to fill in the holes with rhythmic vocals. In fact, I would have to say their rhythm is the most important. It is difficult to sit till when it is played.

Comping is not normally taught because it’s a come naturally, most feel it, they do not think about.
1-Kansas City here I come -------------- Here is where the singer needs help. You come in lightly, then grow, and then play your comping with a flavor that helps them get into their next part. Singers favor compers who help lead them to the next part AND, do not comp while they are singing; it can interfere with their phrasing. Some musicians voice their chords with the melody on top. Singers hate that, they know which note THEY WANT to sing, and when they want to sing it. No leading lines or comping while someone is singing unless it is part of what made the song popular. t

Bernie, when asked what to use to comp I was told, “What would like to hear”. It is all about listening; not copying but listening and trying.
All fill ins and comping are different for each style of music.

John C.

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#453026 - 06/03/18 01:52 AM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: Bernie9]
Bernie9 Offline
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Registered: 09/21/02
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Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
Very good, John, thanks for the advice.
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#453028 - 06/03/18 03:40 AM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: Bernie9]
Scott Langholff Offline
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Registered: 06/09/02
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Loc: Pensacola, Florida, USA
Blues scales and pentatonic scales work great for the basis for fill-ins and improvising solos as well.

One of the best explanations I heard years ago was to play notes in and around the chord. smile


Edited by Scott Langholff (06/03/18 03:42 AM)

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#453029 - 06/03/18 04:19 AM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: Bernie9]
organgrinder Offline
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A simple way to start is to try a simple riff to fill the holesmaybee a part like a horn section would play to accent the vocalist as in kansas city try playing an answer such as kansas city-here- I-come with maybe a root cord in the key of the vocal part like cccc-ccc. you are playing a syllable of the vocal answer instead of singing it.
Hope this will get you started
MEL
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#453040 - 06/03/18 06:52 AM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: Bernie9]
Bernie9 Offline
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Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
I agree, Kansas City and The Wanderer are my first two as they fit a reply type response with a sax interlude. I appreciate everyone's help.
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#453042 - 06/03/18 07:34 AM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: Bernie9]
Dnj Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By Bernie9
I agree, Kansas City and The Wanderer are my first two as they fit a reply type response with a sax interlude. I appreciate everyone's help.


Bernie here's a sample of what you might do comping your vocals in Kansas City
I recorded a short off the cuff demo for you on my S970..

https://app.box.com/s/z4rshu3wce785x50ofrxrm7ktezrcx96



Edited by Dnj (06/03/18 07:37 AM)

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#453048 - 06/03/18 08:10 AM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: Bernie9]
DonM Offline
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Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Very nice DNJ.
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#453054 - 06/03/18 09:34 AM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: Dnj]
bruno123 Offline
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Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4912
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417

Most of my pro playing was done with guitar , so my thinking is based on scale and chord comping.

1-G7 to C major. V7 to I (Scale steps) This is the most used chord progression.

2-F7 or F to G7 to C ---- IV7 or IV to V7 to C

3-Orginal chords -- Singer stops on a C note -- one silent measure following preceding to the F7 chord. Silent measure -- 4th beat F#7 medium volume to F7 stronger volume, singer comes in at this point.

How simple, but we are going to build on this thinking.
Substitute Dm7 G7 for G7 In scale steps: IIm7 V7. You can also sub. Em7 for a C chord. Notes in a C maj9th – C E G B D notes in Em7 E G B D. a good sub. when used in the right place.
Original chord; C //// G7 //// C ///

Sub. Voice is going to hold a note from the first beat until the next C chord. C // Em7 / Ebm7 / Dm7 // G7// Voice begins to sing again on the C chord. Scale Steps: I// IIIm7/ Ebm7/ Dm7// V7// C////

I am using songs from Big Band like Misty or The Lady is a Tramp for my example – it is different for other types of music. This study leads to understand how to reharmonizing all or part of a song. How scale modes are formed. Solo lines both as arpeggios and altered chords, and much more like how do I comp.

If there is interest I will post simple short examples.
Thank you for starting this comping post Bernie, its going to be interesting.

John C.
Wow, I just listened to Kansas City, and again Donny has demoed with a pro sounds like.

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#453055 - 06/03/18 09:36 AM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: Bernie9]
montunoman Offline
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Registered: 10/20/09
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Loc: Dallas, Texas
Thanks for posting that Donny- that’s exactly what I was talking about by filling in the holes. You did so very tastefully!
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#453057 - 06/03/18 09:46 AM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: montunoman]
Dnj Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By montunoman
Thanks for posting that Donny- that’s exactly what I was talking about by filling in the holes. You did so very tastefully!


Don & Paul thank you both wanted to show what can be done during a song comping your vocals,.....and probably each time I play it I would do it differently also depending on my mood there are no rules..

Now here it is again different style recorded on a KORG without vocals as a backing track with different comping....I hope you get the picture...enjoy.

https://app.box.com/s/nvseidd9gbe2zc3wrppcou457acejss5


Edited by Dnj (06/03/18 11:03 AM)

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#453060 - 06/03/18 10:59 AM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: Bernie9]
Jerryghr Offline
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Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 1497
Loc: Buffalo, NY
Hi Bernie,

I used to play along with the melody with the singing. Then I started comping and with a little practice it becomes easier to do and a lot less work while playing. Now I let the singer and the style do all the work while I throw in a few fills.

Here is an example with me noodling around (filling in the
holes) with Tyros sax.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/8r3ojeswxa50obt/September%20in%20The%20Rain.wav?dl=0



Added file as MP3

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mku5he0w8q0hod9/September%20in%20The%20Rain.mp3?dl=0

Regards,

Jerryghr


Edited by Jerryghr (06/03/18 06:52 PM)

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#453064 - 06/03/18 12:42 PM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: Bernie9]
Bernie9 Offline
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Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5508
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
Donny and Jerryghr just opened my mind and ears. Both wonderful examples which I shall keep and refer to. Many have offered excellent advice, but to hear what you all are talking about opens a whole new world. In Donny's rendition, I can see playing off the blues scale. I often ad lib the melody staying in the structure of the scale, this isn't any different, just applied in another way.

It's funny how I have heard comping for 50 years but wasn't listening, because I wasn't trying to do it.

I once was blind and now I see(sort of).

Thanks all
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#453065 - 06/03/18 12:45 PM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: Bernie9]
Dnj Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By Bernie9
Donny and Jerryghr just opened my mind and ears. Both wonderful examples which I shall keep and refer to. Many have offered excellent advice, but to hear what you all are talking about opens a whole new world. In Donny's rendition, I can see playing off the blues scale. I often ad lib the melody staying in the structure of the scale, this isn't any different, just applied in another way.

It's funny how I have heard comping for 50 years but wasn't listening, because I wasn't trying to do it.

I once was blind and now I see(sort of).

Thanks all


Bernie I am glad we could help you as I always say Hearing it is so much better then just talking about it every time,
...good luck to you and your music

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#453066 - 06/03/18 12:49 PM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: Jerryghr]
Dnj Offline
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Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By Jerryghr
Hi Bernie,

I used to play along with the melody with the singing. Then I started comping and with a little practice it becomes easier to do and a lot less work while playing. Now I let the singer and the style do all the work while I throw in a few fills.

Here is an example with me noodling around (filling in the
holes) with Tyros sax.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/8r3ojeswxa50obt/September%20in%20The%20Rain.wav?dl=0

Regards,

Jerryghr


Jerry awesome job really done well....
I Love that song thanx for chiming in on this topic.

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#453073 - 06/03/18 06:06 PM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: Dnj]
Jerryghr Offline
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Registered: 01/14/02
Posts: 1497
Loc: Buffalo, NY
Thanks for listening and commenting fellas.

I would add one more piece of advice to the suggestions.

"Don' be afraid to make mistakes" the more you do it, the more second nature it becomes without thinking about it. Besides the dancers don't really hear the clinkers. If they do I just tell them I was playing jazz.

Glad I could contribute.

Jerryghr


Edited by Jerryghr (06/03/18 06:55 PM)

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#453086 - 06/04/18 12:39 PM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: Bernie9]
Uncle Dave Offline
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Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Not sure if this is the right thread for this, or not. (please tell me, and I'll move it)
Lots has been said about individual playing styles, keyboard preferences, chord shapes, and much more. Here is my take on how I do what I do, and why.
It's important to state that I'm a singer first, and a keyboard/guitar player second ... tied very closely with my role as entertainer/emcee. With THAT said, let's begin.

Whether I'm sitting at a grand piano, or an arranger keyboard, my priorities are the same:
1) vocals
2)bass
3)rhythm
*)everything else (I call this fluff, or color)

My 2 hands generally split the duties of bass and chords, even on an acoustic piano. When playing full chordal accompaniment on a piano, I often rely on a heavy LH octave, or I-V-I to add depth to the chord structure. When playing an arranger, I go between triggering patterns, or playing live manual bass all night. Either way - I ALWAYS play the full chords with my RH, even if the arranger is set to automatic. This personalizes my styles so each one is always song specific. Playing manual bass is my preferred method with standards, and swing tunes, because it enables me to "kick" the rhythm section for emphasis. I can accent phrases, and lines with both hands acting together .... something that's often difficult, while relying on pre programmed styles. I have always believed that bass is the most important element to a rhythm section. Far more important than drums. It sets the key, fills out the fundamental, moves the air, so your gut can feel it, and provides the oooomph to make people (not me) dance. My user styles have been thinned out to remove the piano, and guitar sounds when they are playing most of the chords in a style. This frees up polyphony, and un-clutteres the accompaniment. Remember - I'm spotlighting the melody always. (in my case, my voice)

A typical, or signature sound for me is a simple trio style with a drum pattern, LH bass, RH Rhodes (sometimes layered), and voice on top with added harmonies to suit the style or genre I'm aiming for. Comping behind my vocals is easy in this config, because I'm usually surrounding the melody with the chords, so I can trigger my "freshman-esq" harmonies at will. Some songs get simple 3rd up harmony, some benefit form more complex structure, like Four Seasons, MIlls Bros etc.

For me, I'm happiest when the vocals shine, the bass is solid, the Rhodes is ringing like a bell (sorry Johnny B), and the rest of the band is sitting tightly in the pocket of the groove I'm laying down. This makes my sound less automated, less manufacturer specific, and frankly .... more interesting. (I hope)

The Korg PA series really makes life simple with the button controls on top. The ability to turn on slash bass chords, manual bass, chord sequencing, and turn acc parts on/off in a flash is vital to a fresh sound, for me. Happy to answer any questions about my approach, but I mainly just wanted to share a few thoughts with the gang. Enjoy, all.
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#453127 - 06/05/18 11:33 AM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: Bernie9]
montunoman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 3208
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Hi Bernie,

I thought about your question when I saw this video. Hope it’s helpful

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PvKL-NZ9Gp8
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#453128 - 06/05/18 11:36 AM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: montunoman]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By montunoman
Hi Bernie,

I thought about your question when I saw this video. Hope it’s helpful

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PvKL-NZ9Gp8


clap headphone clap

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#453134 - 06/05/18 12:26 PM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: Jerryghr]
montunoman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 3208
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Originally Posted By Jerryghr
Hi Bernie,

I used to play along with the melody with the singing. Then I started comping and with a little practice it becomes easier to do and a lot less work while playing. Now I let the singer and the style do all the work while I throw in a few fills.

Here is an example with me noodling around (filling in the
holes) with Tyros sax.

Nice rendition of a classic. Thanks for Sharing Jerry.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8r3ojeswxa50obt/September%20in%20The%20Rain.wav?dl=0



Added file as MP3

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mku5he0w8q0hod9/September%20in%20The%20Rain.mp3?dl=0

Regards,

Jerryghr


Very nice rendition. You inspired me to learn this tune. Thanks for sharing Jerry.


Edited by montunoman (06/05/18 12:41 PM)
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#453135 - 06/05/18 12:30 PM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: Uncle Dave]
montunoman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 3208
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Originally Posted By Uncle Dave
Not sure if this is the right thread for this, or not. (please tell me, and I'll move it)
Lots has been said about individual playing styles, keyboard preferences, chord shapes, and much more. Here is my take on how I do what I do, and why.
It's important to state that I'm a singer first, and a keyboard/guitar player second ... tied very closely with my role as entertainer/emcee. With THAT said, let's begin.

Whether I'm sitting at a grand piano, or an arranger keyboard, my priorities are the same:
1) vocals
2)bass
3)rhythm
*)everything else (I call this fluff, or color)

My 2 hands generally split the duties of bass and chords, even on an acoustic piano. When playing full chordal accompaniment on a piano, I often rely on a heavy LH octave, or I-V-I to add depth to the chord structure. When playing an arranger, I go between triggering patterns, or playing live manual bass all night. Either way - I ALWAYS play the full chords with my RH, even if the arranger is set to automatic. This personalizes my styles so each one is always song specific. Playing manual bass is my preferred method with standards, and swing tunes, because it enables me to "kick" the rhythm section for emphasis. I can accent phrases, and lines with both hands acting together .... something that's often difficult, while relying on pre programmed styles. I have always believed that bass is the most important element to a rhythm section. Far more important than drums. It sets the key, fills out the fundamental, moves the air, so your gut can feel it, and provides the oooomph to make people (not me) dance. My user styles have been thinned out to remove the piano, and guitar sounds when they are playing most of the chords in a style. This frees up polyphony, and un-clutteres the accompaniment. Remember - I'm spotlighting the melody always. (in my case, my voice)

A typical, or signature sound for me is a simple trio style with a drum pattern, LH bass, RH Rhodes (sometimes layered), and voice on top with added harmonies to suit the style or genre I'm aiming for. Comping behind my vocals is easy in this config, because I'm usually surrounding the melody with the chords, so I can trigger my "freshman-esq" harmonies at will. Some songs get simple 3rd up harmony, some benefit form more complex structure, like Four Seasons, MIlls Bros etc.

For me, I'm happiest when the vocals shine, the bass is solid, the Rhodes is ringing like a bell (sorry Johnny B), and the rest of the band is sitting tightly in the pocket of the groove I'm laying down. This makes my sound less automated, less manufacturer specific, and frankly .... more interesting. (I hope)

The Korg PA series really makes life simple with the button controls on top. The ability to turn on slash bass chords, manual bass, chord sequencing, and turn acc parts on/off in a flash is vital to a fresh sound, for me. Happy to answer any questions about my approach, but I mainly just wanted to share a few thoughts with the gang. Enjoy, all.


Interesting approach UD. I’d like to get my LH bass lines together to be able to do what you do. Do use any auto accompaniment at all ( besides drums) when doing LH bass?
_________________________
It not the keyboard, it's the keyboardist.

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https://www.facebook.com/elgrupocache

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#453137 - 06/05/18 12:53 PM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: Bernie9]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Left hand bass can take many forms. LHB for a jazz organist is quite different than say stride piano or even (solo) coctail piano. Except for some transcribed 'ragtime', it's hardly ever written down. That's because it's more a technique or playing style than it is what one would see in a normal piece of sheet music. I still think critical listening to a style that you like is the best way to learn this hard to define aspect of playing non-classical music. JMO.

chas
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#453139 - 06/05/18 01:03 PM Re: Comping My Own Vocals [Re: montunoman]
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Originally Posted By montunoman
Do you use any auto accompaniment at all (besides drums) when doing LH bass?


I use many techniques when playing manual bass. With swing tunes, I use a walking style, similar to an organist's approach. With latin styles, I play lots of l-5.
Very rarely do I have the auto acc follow my right hand, but I do, sometimes. When I utilize the auto acc, it's mostly because I want to play a solo line with my right hand ... ie: Sleepwalk, or Last Date.
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