Are you telling me after all those years, I actually have to press the keys?

Can't play but makes up for it in personality.

this was posted a while back..

But if we are being honest here.....to a point all arranger kb players are fakers in a certain way,.......you play a chord and trigger different parts, drums , bass, strings, guitar, brass, etc, etc, and singing VH,.. BUT, your not really playing them at all the keyboard machine is your operating generating the style, etc,,
oh boy what a surprise?.....I know it's hard to accept but that is what is actually happening,....the player is not playing all those parts accept the right hand sounds or both in full kb mode, just acting as their operator. So when you look at it like that it falls into the "faking category" in some way.

...I have to go fake it now 😞

Ha! Fat chance of that .

chas

Sit there and look at that arranger and see if it plays. That is if you don't play a recording through it.

The point is you are certainly operating an automatic musical instrument that we know... But playing the individual accompiament style parts we're not....

Just whisper in its ear and tell it to play a C augmented chord. You can say what you want, it is my instrument of choice, and I do consider it an instrument.
Not that different from playing with a band where the bass player, drummer, rhythm guitar player follow you and play in the right chords while you play the lead and sing. I just don't have to pay my left hand.
And before everybody gets worked up, I do know that playing with a band is far more fulfilling to many musically and artistically. Generally not monetarily though.
Here I go again defending arrangers on an arranger forum.

KARAOKE is KARAOKE whatever way you perform it.
This is not a good advert for arranger keyboards, not at all.
Also, if sit like this with stiff eyes and look absolutely terrified, imagine be a guest in a restaurant with this kind of performance....

As the last song in the video says "He did it his way".

Convincing the audience where all that music is coming from is the
main concern with an automated arranger KB, as the average listeners first thought is "Honey he must have everything pre-programmed inside that thing to get all that music?". You can't blame them for thinking that 9 out of 10 do they hear a full band but only see one person playing!! & why should they know what we're doing anyway?....As long as they enjoy the music being played in whatever way it's done is all that matters. At least if your a singer also they see you doing that live to enforce that fact that you have talent....why do we always have to explain the process to anyone?....That's unless you only play in your living room, in that case the player has to enjoy what they are doing.

He performs on Cruise Ships also

Maybe just maybe there is Hope for Me Someday! I just have to learn to sing better. Harold

Oh please tell me you didn't watch the whole thing!!

Don isn't that the same hat you have? lol.....

No. If it were I'd burn mine!
I suppose we shouldn't be so critical. The guy is out there doing his best. Sorry I couldn't say that without a smilie.

just lose the keyboard, grab a mic and just sing...

The guy is using the keyboard as a "prop"... just like the light show, or even his hat..

I know players that use a keyboard as a buffer to the audience, or just as a player (media)..

I have seen big name country singers that strap on a guitar...and don't play it...lust an image (prop)..

I have seen decent singer/ piano performers rely on their back up keyboard players..

Or well known gal singers (stars) that can't sing without a pitch correction or studio backing track..

So to call this guy a fake, and not look at the entire entertainment business doesn't seem fair..

He could travel lighter with a Mic and mp3 player or laptop. I don't use backing tracks, but either way what he does doesn't make me "ashamed" of what I do..
Btw, anybody heard of this?
Merish4
or this?
Okyweb4

It is very clear that he is being cheated here, this happens in most holiday resorts ewaar I have been, if you tell the musician that he does not do anything you have an argument with the man in question. . But let's not forget that the most popular keyboard player on You-Tube gets the most appreciation by playing along with a Midi file. and that there are thousands of people enthusiastically with a DJ who has made an audio track in his home studio that he just turns on or off on his laptop computer. It is therefore clear that the audience does not care at all whether you make music yourself or not, but how you present it all.

Impuls

I respectfully disagree. It depends on the audience and the venue. If you tried 'faking it' in a jazz club (YES, they're still around), you'd get run out of the place. If the audience is there for THE MUSIC, they are not going to be nearly as accepting as those that are there to be 'entertained'. Also, is it a 'listening' audience or a 'dancing'/let's party, ya'll' audience. There is also the question of QUALITY. A really good singer/arranger player is always going to trump a bad band. But where the quality is equal, and given a reasonably sophisticated (and sober) audience, the band is almost always preferable. Of course, this is all theory as I've never personally seen an arranger player in any venue in all my 99 years on this planet. Maybe I need to get out more?

chas

I mostly agree , but here in europe you see arranger in bands and a lot of solo entertainers use them ,for 20 years ago live bands where populair , but that time is realy gone , the youth only wants to listen to DJ's ( in smal places like bars and clubs) ,Festivals are a total other leage . When we play for audience with my band , the average eage is about 50 years. ( we know good music) :-) most in small places and playing for fun ( not payed) .

Impuls

I agree, Chas, you really need to get out more.

Gary

I CARE, A LOT whether it's live or "Memorex".

Many in a jazz audience know as much about changes as I do.

R.

Fran is right. About 20 years ago, the producer of a successful area band (7 top 10 albums in the last 20 years) asked if I would work with an upcoming country singer on guitar. I listened to him. He played like George Jones, Blake Shelton, Randy Travis, Toby Kieth and the like...almost no ability at all. He wanted to sound like John Meyer, Brad Paisley or Amy Grant's husband, a personal favorite, Vince Gill.

I told him that, right now, developing his stage presence, showmanship and repertoire was more important.

He made major bucks standing there holding that "prop" guitar and is now semi retired. About once a month, he stops by where I'm working with friends. He introduces me as his former guitar teacher, who advised him to "GIVE UP"!

We all have a good laugh. He's a good guy....TERRIBLE PLAYER!

Russ

If I recall correctly, there was a TV band that was a total fake, but they turned their fakery into a mountain of money. Just cannot recall the name of them right now.

Gary

Milli Vanilli?

I think he's teasing us with the Monkees.

Really think he's talking about Spinal Tap.

One of the funniest movies I have ever seen. Hit pretty close to home, as did all the movies by these guys.

You're right. These crazy Brits turned the movie into a long music/comedy act.

LOVE IT!. They also did movies about folk music and dog shows.

R.

The Monkees started out not playing their own music, but several were good musicians. I think later they did play it themselves. Memory is hazy.

Over the years, I have played on at least 50 records by bands without credit. On one band, the keyboard player is fine live, but freezes up in the studio.

I worked lots of dates with a surf band years ago. The guitar player could not read and just played until he wanted to stop live. That didn't work on 45's.

The bad news is, I got session rates, but no points.

Now, I rarely see live bands in big venues who are not partially using tracks, usually triggered by the drummer. I watch the drum head and listen to the bass drum line. Lots of times, there are extra strokes coming from somewhere.

R.

Whats going on here .....who is playing the sax parts

And the guitar part?

At 2:37 and elsewhere, as his right hand is playing the piano part, you hear the piano not corresponding to his striking of the keys. Strange. Maybe, he's "lip-synching".

As far as the sax part, he must've recorded it previously.

Faker?.......YES OR NO

You see the "start/stop" knob not flashing , he plays with a Midi file
or audio file .he can also use a "Chord" tracker file the Break button does flash sometimes .

Impuls

In this overly-sensitive world, I have no comment!

I've seen similiar in live performance, 'playing' over a midi or bakingtrack,
and the keys being 'muted' or local set to off.
Don't really need any high pricelevel arranger to do this ....

genos does this very well..

If perform like that, I would rather use a $25 Casio or similiar, and use the rest of
the money saved to do a happy trip or two to the sunny and warm Canary Islands.

Just to be clear STYLES are only small SMF Files triggered by chords...

Yepp, learned about that many many years ago.
But I still play the chords live, even try to hit the correct keys
once in a while to make it sound reasonable right for the songs.....

GJ
I take your post as a gross understatement, and I resemble that remark. lol

The fellow in the original video must have been a Synthzone member. After reading your comments he pulled his videos.

We were probably way too tough on him. He didn't ask us to post his performances and he didn't ask for criticism. Probably a nice guy as well.

Maybe...but you sure can't get a full blown arrangement like "New York, New York" by playing style play. A lot of ebb and flow and intermittent instruments cannot be achieved in style mode, as in a SMF.

That said, I cannot and will not play a SMF. I love the versatility and (somewhat) creativity achieved by 'working at it'. I get a lot of compliments on my arrangements - which are really mine

You might be right about that ...
Eric

Yeah, I'm sure he is a terrific and lovely guy.
But to put videos like that at YT can be very risky ......
especially when pretend to play and not too good at pretending.
He probably have big fun, and that's what's counts.

I don't know why the disdain in playing with smf arrangements.....
mix it up you'll be a better musician for it and your audiences will love it even more, ....there is music after just repetitious styles ......why be just a one trick pony I don't get it?

I'll go out on the limb...........because anyone can do smf and a few can do style play effectively.

Give me someone from the audience and tell them to push SMF play

Put that same person in style mode .........

...isn't that the rap of this whole thread? If he was performing in style mode and really busy with changes, he'd be admired

Have you considered the thought and talent to record and create a SMF song exactly in the arrangement you like track by track and then play on top of it with both hands....?

Hey Donny,

If that's what you do, I wouldn't even mention the word SMF. You are creating a masterpiece from scratch, as in workstation. Kudos to that - done it many times and wish to no longer do so.

I was referring to the person who throws in a SMF and sings on top, or worse, as we've all seen.

But, you know, "Who am I?" as Casting Crowns sing (what a song!).
I just do what pleases me, in order to continue and admire anyone who has talent, no matter how they bring it.

Zuki,...I appreciate ALL Styles of music as there is good & not so go in all of it no matter how it is created...to just be like a Parrot as we all do and just mimick other peoples songs best we can is ok to make a few bucks and enjoy yourself but the deeper interest is in "THE CREATION" of the musical performance,...be it an original or stylizing it in such a way to make someone else's song your own...
If you were in a band you would only be playing your keyboard part same as you would playing on top of a SMF arrangement. That said all the tools to create music any way you desire is all inside these machines why not utilize them all and mix it up.
Good luck to you buddy.

Jim, I actually have a dedicated style file for New York, New York that provides you with a full blown arrangement. Of course, it's a Yamaha style, but I'll be glad to post it here so others can download and enjoy it as much as I have over the years.

Gary

Gary, could you post an MP3 of just the style so that we 'non-yammies' could just hear what it sounds like?

Here is Gary's NYNY sty in action!!!


https://www.dropbox.com/s/7m6kj3b82jjcb5q/NYNY.mp3?dl=0


Regards,

Jerryghr

I really enjoyed your NY NYrendition Jerry. I use that same style too and it works great. I do play with one singer that can’t live without the retardando finale so for him I use an SMF. Both approaches work...

Thanks Jerry, sounds a lot better than I do, and I'll bet a lot better looking.

All the best,

Gary

She's also older than you.

People love her. She sings in Italian also.




Jerry

line dancers hate the retardo...... I never use it... Strick time only for dancing.

Whatever works. My arrangers are GREAT for score roughs, but suck for live jazz play...no bass double times, retards, "walks"...none of the great stuff players do when they are in that unspoken zone.

Someone posted a good player playing a great jazz tune the other day. It SUCKED, all because of the limitations of the machine.

5 months into 2018, I use an arranger almost daily for roughs, but not once for live play.

But that's just me. Do whatever turns your crank.


R.