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#446651 - 02/16/18 08:50 AM Playing Over Modfied Midifiles
Bernie9 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5508
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
I have had a hard time justifying this for years, why, I don't know except I am self taught and people thing I am fairly good for an old hacker. Times, they are a changing. I remember playing my new B3 at lounges in the sixties, with my drummer, and dance floors were full. I started soloing at clubs and was the first to have a Rhythm Ace. Great fun.

Today I play for a crowd that is the same age, but i'm not. consequently, I need music from the 60's to 80's, at least, and I have great Tune 1000 files that are perfect on the Pa4X, as they show me the chords and melody line. I easily mute what I play, and change keys.

I guess my problem is one of conscience. My audiences really like it, but I feel I am cheating somewhat with song specific backing, even though I am fully playing.

I need to know I am not a fraud doing this. How honest is that?
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pa4X 76 ,SX900, Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station, Bose compact

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#446655 - 02/16/18 09:31 AM Re: Playing Over Modfied Midifiles [Re: Bernie9]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By Bernie9
I have had a hard time justifying this for years, why, I don't know except I am self taught and people thing I am fairly good for an old hacker. Times, they are a changing. I remember playing my new B3 at lounges in the sixties, with my drummer, and dance floors were full. I started soloing at clubs and was the first to have a Rhythm Ace. Great fun.

Today I play for a crowd that is the same age, but i'm not. consequently, I need music from the 60's to 80's, at least, and I have great Tune 1000 files that are perfect on the Pa4X, as they show me the chords and melody line. I easily mute what I play, and change keys.

I guess my problem is one of conscience. My audiences really like it, but I feel I am cheating somewhat with song specific backing, even though I am fully playing.

I need to know I am not a fraud doing this. How honest is that?


Bernie your an entertainer bottom line,...nobody cares how you do it anymore,...remember this, styles are just small midi files you operate on an arranger kb,....if you played with a band you would only play YOUR PART on top of them right? and thats what you are doing playing over smf songs also,...to make it more legit if you will is customize the smf songs with some additional tracks to make the song your own and then play on top of it and sing also then it becomes "YOUR arrangement" and self pride is assured when you play, also using "MARKERS" with your smf songs is a very valuable asset to the overall arrangement too, ......Yes it's all changing in the trenches from the old days very quickly,....I saw it coming years ago and adapted accordingly eventually you will also,..the people dictate the terms,........even the old want the new these days..that said Just MIX IT UP!! open your mind and your heart and give em hell out there 150% every show... Good Luck!

keys


Edited by Dnj (02/16/18 11:06 AM)

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#446656 - 02/16/18 09:34 AM Re: Playing Over Modfied Midifiles [Re: Dnj]
Graham UK Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/20/01
Posts: 1925
Loc: Lincolnshire UK
Dnj. I fully agree with your answer, you beat me to the reply.


Edited by Graham UK (02/16/18 09:34 AM)

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#446661 - 02/16/18 09:55 AM Re: Playing Over Modfied Midifiles [Re: Graham UK]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By Graham UK
Dnj. I fully agree with your answer, you beat me to the reply.


cool2

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#446662 - 02/16/18 10:21 AM Re: Playing Over Modfied Midifiles [Re: Bernie9]
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Well said Donny.
Don’t know why you would think you were cheating Bernie.
Cheating would be miming and pretending to play. ie actually contributing nothing, which is not the case..
It’s all about entertaining the audience, give them what they want.
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Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
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#446665 - 02/16/18 10:49 AM Re: Playing Over Modfied Midifiles [Re: rikkisbears]
Gunnar Jonny Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 4333
Loc: Norway
Originally Posted By rikkisbears
.....Cheating would be miming and pretending to play. ie actually contributing nothing....


Agree fully.
But it's also important to be honest about what we are doing.
Bernie, you take active part by play your instrument in the 'orcestra', then you don't 'cheat'.

keys

I've seen some that use the arranger purely as a playback machine and midifile-player
to play commercial midifiles 'as is', (bought or downloaded more or less legally from net)
and pretends they are playing live at the instrument.
That is in my humble opinion cheating.
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Cheers 🥂
GJ
_______________________________________________
"Success is not counted by how high you have climbed
but by how many you brought with you." (Wil Rose)

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#446669 - 02/16/18 11:26 AM Re: Playing Over Modfied Midifiles [Re: Bernie9]
Bernie9 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5508
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
Thanks guys(and Rikki). I feel better already.
_________________________
pa4X 76 ,SX900, Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station, Bose compact

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#446670 - 02/16/18 12:00 PM Re: Playing Over Modfied Midifiles [Re: Bernie9]
montunoman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 3208
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Although I prefer the flexibility of styles every once in awhile I'll come across a tune that's hard to re create using auto accompaniment.

Sometimes you need song specif bass lines, drum parts, or stops and starts that are hard to do with styles. You'd may be surprised how many songs that sound like simple 4/4 will throw in a measure of 2/4 (the quirky 2 count) Songs like "Purple Rain" and "Pretty Women" come to mind. Many Korgs and Ketron keyboards have a reset botton for instances like that so the beat doesn't get turned around.

Another thought: Although you may have more control with styles, it can actually look visually fake form an audiences perceptive. When playing with styles your left hardly has to move at all to generate full sounding accompaniment. When playing over backing tracks you are able to play full two handed piano style accompaniment that maybe be too complex for the auto-accompaniment on an arranger keyboard to recognize.

There's pro and cons to both auto-accompaniment and backing tracks. No need to limit yourself to one or the other.
_________________________
It not the keyboard, it's the keyboardist.

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#446671 - 02/16/18 12:08 PM Re: Playing Over Modfied Midifiles [Re: Bernie9]
captain Russ Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 7285
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
A recent post by one of the most talented folks here, both on keys and as a vocalist, was done using a style intro. The player was just sitting there, while all this music was coming from the keyboard.

I had not seen that sort of presentation for a great while, and, man, did that look fake.

It's enough for me to never use ANY programmed parts, other that simple drum...maybe drum and bass parts ever again.

Incidentally, this member is GREAT, and could have easily done without the programmed intro. That was his choice, and I respect that.

It's just not for me.


R.

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#446678 - 02/16/18 02:10 PM Re: Playing Over Modfied Midifiles [Re: montunoman]
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Originally Posted By montunoman
Although I prefer the flexibility of styles every once in awhile I'll come across a tune that's hard to re create using auto accompaniment.

Sometimes you need song specif bass lines, drum parts, or stops and starts that are hard to do with styles. You'd may be surprised how many songs that sound like simple 4/4 will throw in a measure of 2/4 (the quirky 2 count) Songs like "Purple Rain" and "Pretty Women" come to mind. Many Korgs and Ketron keyboards have a reset botton for instances like that so the beat doesn't get turned around.

Another thought: Although you may have more control with styles, it can actually look visually fake form an audiences perceptive. When playing with styles your left hardly has to move at all to generate full sounding accompaniment. When playing over backing tracks you are able to play full two handed piano style accompaniment that maybe be too complex for the auto-accompaniment on an arranger keyboard to recognize.

There's pro and cons to both auto-accompaniment and backing tracks. No need to limit yourself to one or the other.


I agree, Paul ... and when performing one of those 'quirky' songs like "Pretty Woman" as a vocalist, you can concentrate more on the vocal performance, and not worry about hitting the 'Tempo Reset' button ...
BUT ... if one is going to 'fake' the entire instrumental performance, one might as well stand in front of the KB and just sing ...
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