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#435098 - 07/27/17 03:20 PM Re: Kn7000 to Korg Pa4x [Re: nsr007]
bruno123 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 3282
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
Scott, the 2 after Pa4x is the upgrade. Back in the Technics days my friend and I worked with midi files. What you created with the Technics did not sound good on another keyboard because Technics used Technics instrument sounds. You had to use GM instruments. (General to all keyboards)

We did find a way to make the drums in a Technics midi file much stronger. When a Technics midi files was made it used the style from the keyboard. Trying to use the midi file in another required a bit of work. Personally I found that playing today’s midi files through my IPad or my laptop adequate. (Very acceptable)

Now the important part: managing midi files in Technics was not easy. In the Pa4x it is a simple operation. Each time I took a Technics midi file and put into another keyboard I did not like it – because the instrument sounds in the other keyboard were not the same – not as good.

Gotta stop here, my friend Roger knows much more about Technics midi files; and he is always ready to help. I have a good bunch of Technics converted to Korg styles – they are fair; defiantly not the same.

I loved the Technics forum when it was filled with many very precious people; miss it.
John C.

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#435152 - 07/28/17 11:42 AM Re: Kn7000 to Korg Pa4x [Re: bruno123]
RMepstead Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 1478
Loc: Wootton Bassett - Wiltshire - ...
I've fiddled around on my friend's PA4X for more than a year now, whilst I still work with my KN7000 both at home and out gigging.
From an operational point of view I find that there is little or no crossover between the two machines in terms of taking years of setups done in Technics and transferring them across to a PA4X...I think you've really got to start from scratch with the Korg in more ways than one. There are a lot of styles available for the PA4X on the internet produced in its Korg operating system...many of them song specific.
Would I start from scratch again now after 20 years of Technics data currently available to me instantly...no, I'm afraid not.
I haven't tried reproducing technics stuff in midi format and then taking it over to PA4X and unravelling it into a Korg style file but I reckon that the O/S is so different that although midi is universal the result would not have been worth the considerable effort.
Just my opinion, Scott.
_________________________
Roger M

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#435155 - 07/28/17 11:56 AM Re: Kn7000 to Korg Pa4x [Re: bruno123]
nsr007 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 220
Loc: USA
John and Rog -

I have read carefully all you have said but nothing I am finding regarding doing arrangements from scratch. It seems all about midi files and the ability of changing them. As I have said many times over the years, I do not use other people's ideas. I create everything myself. I have never been one to use pre-set styles in the keyboard. I think they are bad and totally unprofessional sounding. You have two measure that come back to haunt you constantly. You can't play complex harmony because the base line created in these styles won't fall in the right place and sound terrible. I can create a base line that will work with any song and always play with the right note.

Apparently, there is no such thing as a composer section in this keyboard. All my work is done there. I create my style fully there and then use it in the sequencer for a song. This may interest you but I have done COMPLETE songs in composer ONLY. I have used all the variations, fill-ins in 16 measures each and in the sequencer when I do the song panel memories are used ONLY for changing from one variation to another. It is very interesting because the song done this way, using panel memories only for changing variations, the completed song has not used one bit of memory in the song. All the memory used comes from the composer. This will give you an idea of my knowledge and expertise in using composer.

I think the Korg Pa4x is an ideal keyboard for the "button pushers." I say that in all due respect. I was hoping that one could do what I could do in the KN7, if in a different way but I think it would have to be a separate area from the sequencer for me to do original styles. I do wish that there was a video and maybe there is fully showing all the different things you can do in the keyboard and cover my concern.

I appreciate your responses.

Best,

Scott

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#435170 - 07/28/17 03:53 PM Re: Kn7000 to Korg Pa4x [Re: nsr007]
bruno123 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 3282
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417

Scott the Korg Pa4x has a record section where you can record a full song --- or record each part separately – and an editing section where you can change what you wish. It has the same system for styles and pads.

Another plus is that you can play more than one pad at a time.

The important part is the learning curve. It would not be logical to think that a leading flagship keyboard like Korg Pa4x would not have a complete recording sequence system that surpasses the keyboards of years ago. And yes I remember listening to sequence that was recorded using only the composer section on the Kn7.

Scott what I am writing here is only information. Not everyone will put the time into relearning. For myself, I used a dedicated sequencer recorder --- CakeWalk, later renamed Sonar. The pros write their sequence on a dedicated sequencer and then transfer it to a keyboard.

My suggestion: Go and play a Pa4x or download the manual. The keyboards of today have 30 times more options of the older ones. Everytime I found a new option on my Kn7000 I became excited. I feel the same way with the Pa4x. Please keep in mind I had the Pa800 and the Pa900 before buying the Pa4x. The hardest learning curve was from the Kn7 to my first Korg keyboard, the Pa800. Fo4 a while I hated it until I realized that I had to forget about Technics and relearn Korg’s system.

I hope I’m helping here, John C.

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#435173 - 07/28/17 06:52 PM Re: Kn7000 to Korg Pa4x [Re: bruno123]
nsr007 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 220
Loc: USA
A big sigh!!! The keyboard has a section to do styles from scratch! Good point about downloading the manual. I assume it is free. Because I am a perfectionist, I must comment on my spelling of "base" I guess I was thinking of baseball. I meant of course and you understood I was referring to bass.

You mentioned you listened to a sequence that was done using only composer. Was it what I uploaded to my site for others to hear? It was a lot of work and involved in and out of ad libbing and various movements. I saw no post of anyone else doing this. In order to do what I did, one has to be very familiar with the composer.

Scott

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#435174 - 07/28/17 07:28 PM Re: Kn7000 to Korg Pa4x [Re: nsr007]
bruno123 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 3282
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
Yes it was you Scott, I really miss those days.

The manual is free. When you see how intense/involved it is you will understand why I love the keyboard. I dislike buying a keyboard or computer that I can learn in a few months. Steve I still do not know many parts of the Pa4x --- that’s because I work on the necessary sections that I need to play until I am comfortable; then I go on.

My biggest problem was that I tried to make the korg do what the Kn7 did; and in the same way. Korg has its own way of creating and it is much better.

Now if you read all that I have written and buy the Pa4x – AND you don’t like it, I will feel responsible and then I will have to buy it from you. (smile)

Scott life is fun, how fortunate we are, John C.

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#435194 - 07/29/17 07:29 AM Re: Kn7000 to Korg Pa4x [Re: bruno123]
Bernie9 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 3927
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
I just want to pop in and say hello. Rog and John have covered the essentials of the Pa4x already and I agree. I have had mine a little over a year. Before that I played my KN7000 for over twelve years and, like the rest of us, was devastated at it's demise. However, life goes on with or without us, and sold it to John, who I believe, had two previously. The Pa4X is a fine replacement, even though I started from scratch. I found it was not a bad thing because all the new sounds and styles gave me a fresh outlook on my old favorites.

I, also, miss the old gang in the KN7000's heyday.

See ya
Bernie
_________________________
pa4X 76 ,Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station

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#435200 - 07/29/17 09:04 AM Re: Kn7000 to Korg Pa4x [Re: bruno123]
nsr007 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 220
Loc: USA
John,

Glad you heard what I did in composer. That song was 15 minutes long. It shows you how many variations and fill-ins I used to do it.

Since there is little activity on this forum, I guess it is o.k. to talk about another keyboard. I didn't know the Korg Pa4x was at least a year old. I assumed it was sort of new. Speaking of keyboards, has anything special come out from Roland? They have made good keyboards in the past. One would think they would be competitive.

Scott

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#435217 - 07/29/17 03:15 PM Re: Kn7000 to Korg Pa4x [Re: nsr007]
bruno123 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 3282
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
Scott please keep in mind that the good Lord wired me a certain way. We are all wired a special way with some variations. Now I’m safe to proceed. (smile)

So working with moving styles from one keyboard to another I have come to this conclusion: each style is made by the manufacture using their sound engine and other features made by them. It’s a story by itself. When you try to use it in a different keyboard (Different manufacturer) there are many differences. This leaves you something like the original that almost makes it.

The sounds of the drums and basses are so different that when I play “In the Mood” by Glenn Miller it sounds like it is being played by a group of musicians in their twenties.

Scott post your thoughts on the General Arranger forum, you will receive different opinions on the subject. Rikki (a very nice woman, and always ready to help) has worked with styles for many years.

Pa4x the “2” is the new upgrade. From what I understand it is one of the best upgrades ever. (????)

Years ago I remember getting the written original Big Band arrangements (The notes) of some great songs. I placed each part of the arrangement in the Kn7 using “Step Time” It sounded OK, but there was much more needed than just notes and instruments. But, it was fun doing it.

Take care, John C.

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#435230 - 07/29/17 06:50 PM Re: Kn7000 to Korg Pa4x [Re: bruno123]
nsr007 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 220
Loc: USA
John,

Thanks for all you said. This will be my last post. I have checked out the General Arranger and apparently, there are a lot of bitches posting. Nigel had to step in and give warning.

Enjoy your Korg. My problem is that I am in a location where I cannot check out keyboards. You apparently have this advantage.

Keep on keeping on with your music.

Best regards,

Scott

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