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#420368 - 04/24/16 05:52 AM Who really can hear the difference?
guitpic1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/16/14
Posts: 1950
Loc: Missouri
It occurs to me, the real reason to change from one keyboard to another is for the benefit of the performer.

I doubt audiences can tell the subtle differences?

It seems audiences that I play for can tell the difference between PA systems though...sometimes.

Audiences, for me anyway, seem to react more to how I entertain...or volume etc.

I really don't think the audiences I play for...age 40's on up....would know whether I was playing a Yamaha, Korg, Ketron, Casio or whatever.

But I would know the difference....guess that's what counts.

smile


Edited by guitpic1 (04/24/16 05:53 AM)
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#420370 - 04/24/16 07:10 AM Re: Who really can hear the difference? [Re: guitpic1]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15563
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
I've found over the years that there are several major factors that come into play in this regard. First and foremost, vocal clarity is of utmost importance. There are so many systems that do not provide this high vocal quality, especially most conventional sound systems that I've owned over the past 5 decades.

Next, showmanship is a key ingredient. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, some of the best, highly trained and skilled musicians I know have been out of work for years. They're often the ones sitting in my and other entertainers audiences. They are all far superior musicians than myself, but they were never an entertainer or showman. Granted, some musicians find work, but most of the the busiest folks I know in the music industry are musician/entertainers/singers.

Vocal ability is a key ingredient to success - no doubt about it. Yep, there are a select few, such as Captain Russ and Deane Peters, that are just musicians and rarely sing, though both have good vocal skills. I'm not sure why they choose not to utilize those skills, but again, in my experience, audiences seem to respond better to someone that provides great vocals to their audiences. Additionally, those vocals also become a form of communications with our audiences, thus allowing more interaction and connection with those sitting or dancing in front of us.

Appearance. Sure, there are some folks that feel they do just fine wearing old, ragged jeans, a wrinkled shirt, and work-boots while performing. Me, I want to look great in front of my audiences, even when performing in a laid back location such as the Florida Keys where shorts and a tee shirt are considered formal attire. I want to look better than the waitstaff and line cooks. And, the perception is that if you look professional, you are professional. I spent thousands of dollars on my performance apparel over the years, and I absolutely love it when I'm ogled by some younger lady in the audience.

Overall sound. There is no question in my mind that the overall sound quality of our arranger keyboards is an important component of our performances. While most audiences wouldn't know the difference between various brands, those subtle differences do provide a higher degree of musical and sound quality that keeps those audiences coming back for more.

Vocal harmonizers. For the most part, this adds a bit to our vocal performances, however, most of the time it's use should be very limited. When you depend heavily upon vocals, such as myself, the key ingredients is crisp, clear vocals coming from the vocal processor - with vocal harmony coming in a distance second.

Lighting is also a key ingredient in any performance. While much of the time, this is beyond our control, subtle accent lights are a great asset. Gimmick lights, such as Bob The Flame can also be a great asset - they draw attention to the entertainer the same as lights that change with the tempo. Essentially, they create an atmosphere, which is a key ingredient.

Don't forget about song selection, which should always be done on the spot - not ahead of time. You must be able to read that audience, then provide the music that you feel will stir their emotions, get them out of their seats and on the dance floor. Play what they want to hear - NOT what you want to play.

Hope this helps,

Gary cool
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#420371 - 04/24/16 07:14 AM Re: Who really can hear the difference? [Re: travlin'easy]
hammer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 2397
Loc: Texas
What I have just discovered is that until I started playing my Ketron SD7 at gigs my audiences really did not care or notice which keyboard I was playing. But they sure can tell a difference and have often said they prefer the over-all sound of the SD7 to my Tyros 4. I believe what they are hearing and feeling is the huge difference in the rhythm and bass sections in the styles of the SD7. Just sayin'.

Deane

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#420375 - 04/24/16 08:00 AM Re: Who really can hear the difference? [Re: hammer]
rosetree
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: hammer
What I have just discovered is that until I started playing my Ketron SD7 at gigs my audiences really did not care or notice which keyboard I was playing. But they sure can tell a difference and have often said they prefer the over-all sound of the SD7 to my Tyros 4. I believe what they are hearing and feeling is the huge difference in the rhythm and bass sections in the styles of the SD7. Just sayin'.

Deane


Did I mention that I'm looking forward to the SD40? wink
The good drum samples and rhythmic arrangements make a noticeable difference, but Ketron also manages to make simple samples (e.g. one-layer trumpet sample) sound very appealing due to the use of naturally sampled vibrato. (That's why I prefer a conventionally sampled Ketron trumpet over a Roland SuperNatural trumpet.)

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#420380 - 04/24/16 10:52 AM Re: Who really can hear the difference? [Re: hammer]
Tyrosman5
Unregistered


I believe that most people with decent hearing can notice and superior
sounds and styles that Ketron has. I have a Tyros 5 and since owning
a Ketron SD 7, I play it almost all the time because of the great
sounds that it produces.
PS: The onboard speakers sound really nice and I believe it's due to
the purity of the tone generators in the Ketron. Lloyd

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#420383 - 04/24/16 11:48 AM Re: Who really can hear the difference? [Re: guitpic1]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
I think in general you can recognise the styles because of sound and arrangements...

Recognising which keyboard is what because of a single sound is near impossible these days...

And while the simple samples of the ketron do sound good, i prefer the yamaha sa2 and Roland sna because of the real time expresion you can archieve with them and the several different articulations they give acces to for a single sound.. But does the single samples of those sounds sound better then Ketrons?
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#420384 - 04/24/16 12:33 PM Re: Who really can hear the difference? [Re: Bachus]
bruno123 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4912
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
I think that most people DO NOT hear the difference-- -but I am sure they feel the difference. Most do not know what is going on with our equipment, but they react to the excitement; they can feel it. Even if they are only aware that they are dancing better.

There are songs that we all play and the players who have the drive in their vocal, in their setup, and in their instrument are the players that reach people. Yes, a good instrument has a good part in it; however the player’s voice and feel lead the list.

John C.

PS, Example: Vic Damone (spelling?) has one of the best voices in the business; even better than Sinatra. When sings an upbeat songs it falls flat. No feel –No heart- It’s just not there.

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#420385 - 04/24/16 01:12 PM Re: Who really can hear the difference? [Re: guitpic1]
J. Larry Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/99
Posts: 521
Loc: University, MS 38677 USA
Since, at the moment, I’m playing exclusively dining music, Gary’s final point about song selection and reading the audience is the main ingredient for me. I look at their ages and try different tunes that I think they can relate to. Most of the time I’m spot-on, especially with the older crowd. Oh, and when I upgrade arrangers, it’s for my benefit and personal enjoyment. If that spills over to the patrons, so much the better.

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#420387 - 04/24/16 02:22 PM Re: Who really can hear the difference? [Re: guitpic1]
Bill Lewis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 2442
Loc: Bluffton/Hilton Head SC USA
Gary hit the high points and really no one really is that aware of the best Sax sound etc. This goes along with Marks post --- It's all about entertainment. Think of the popularity of dueling piano shows. Does anyone care about the piano sounds , no they into the players banter with the audience and having them do some fun sing alongs and funny lyrics. The basic sound has to be high quality and that includes a top notch PA and keyboard but again it's all about entertainment. You have to connect with your audience. I've seen the worst musicians work because they could keep the crowd engaged.
Did anyone go here Victor Borge just play piano even though he was a very good pianist.? He discovered his comedy would outshine his virtouisity and went with it.
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Bill in SC --- Roland BK9 (2) Roland BK7M, Roland PK5 Pedals, Roland FP90, Roland CM30 (2), JBL Eon Ones (2) JBL 610 Monitor, Behringer Sub, EV mics, Apple iPad (2) Behringer DJ mixer

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#420389 - 04/24/16 03:28 PM Re: Who really can hear the difference? [Re: guitpic1]
tony mads usa Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 14376
Loc: East Greenwich RI USA
Originally Posted By: guitpic1
It occurs to me, the real reason to change from one keyboard to another is for the benefit of the performer.
I doubt audiences can tell the subtle differences?
It seems audiences that I play for can tell the difference between PA systems though...sometimes.
Audiences, for me anyway, seem to react more to how I entertain...or volume etc.
I really don't think the audiences I play for...age 40's on up....would know whether I was playing a Yamaha, Korg, Ketron, Casio or whatever.
But I would know the difference....guess that's what counts.
smile


Getting back to the original question which I think was more about whether or not the audience can tell the difference between one KB or another, not whether one is a good entertainer or not, unless you are playing a BOTL KB and switch to a TOTL KB I don't think the audience realizes the difference so much, UNLESS you are someone like Don Mason who plays in one place a few nights a week, and have regular customers coming in each week ... All the audience is interested in is how it sounds, and are they going to enjoy it ... let's face facts - there are people basically performing karaoke and entertaining audiences,even in some upscale restaurants, so does the audience REALLY care about the source of the sound ?!? ...
IMHO, a change from one KB to another is more to benefit the performer, whether it be through "better" styles, sounds, ease of operation, whatever, ...BUT, those changes may give the performer more confidence, a better feeling about the performance, and may actually led to a BETTER performance, which in turn will lead to a better experience for the audience ... but as to whether the audience appreciates the difference between one KB and another, I seriously doubt it ..
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