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#413688 - 12/26/15 10:29 PM Re: PA 4X [Re: guitpic1]
shueymusic Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/11
Posts: 642
Loc: Lebanon, PA
I've lead worship in the Contemporary setting since 2004. I work out my arrangements a head of time. I sequence all the parts in my Yamaha Motif ES7 and make the mix drum heavy. They follow me! I am also the lead melody singer. Oh, and I play the keys (piano, Wurlitzer EP, and others) live.

You need three things to make the congregation follow you...
• Strong melody singer
• Chords of the song (keyboard or guitar)
• A drummer who knows the arrangement and keeps solid time
---I program all my drum tracks from scratch

After 11 years, I have over 230 praise and worship songs sequenced. After a few years of one arrangement, I do update as I need to.

Everyone else plugs into that formula and it works very well for a smaller church.

I just switched to the Yamaha PSR-S970 to be lighter and to bring my song files in as WAV instead of the MIDI sequences in the Motif ES7. A bit of work to transfer them as audio... takes up a bit more memory too. Lightens my load by 17 lbs. We do 5-6 songs per week... Transfer the Motif MIDI into my DAW takes about 10-15 minutes per song... So until it's finished, I'll have an extra hour or so of work per week. I'd better get started!!

Congrats on the PA4x!!! Enjoy!!!
_________________________
~Johnathan
"The Shueys"
www.shueymusic.com
Yamaha Genos - RCF M20x - RCF HD10A (Stereo) - Jupiter Pocket Trumpet - Sennheiser e935 - Neumann KMS-104 plus-N

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#413692 - 12/27/15 06:36 AM Re: PA 4X [Re: PraiseTheLord]
Marcus Offline
Member

Registered: 11/17/12
Posts: 210
Loc: Canada
Just to add my two cents in regards to the last few posts. I am now retired from organist and working with choirs and congregations. I occasionally fill in or play the odd Wedding, a Funeral or Memorial Service.

Two main reasons why a congregation may sing slow or appear to lag behind your playing or lead singing. If the congregation was used to a previous musician (keyboard/organist) that generally played slower or dragged the music. There is a difference between dragging a piece and giving specific reverence to a suitable song. It may take weeks to months for a congregation to respond to a new musician that keeps a more upbeat tempo. A good soloist singer that can keep in timing with the keyboard or guitar is a must as well.

Depending on the size of the church or place of worship and where the keyboard player is located, a lot can happen acoustically as far as sound time delays. When I was training as organist you always hear the congregation a second or so behind your playing. By the time the congregation hears a note you play, their response and the time you hear their singing, you can actually be playing one note ahead of them. If not prepared, the natural tendency is to slow down your playing, thinking the congregation has to catch up, but in most cases isn't the issue. Select your tempo, and keep within it. Occasionally playing staccato can help urge a congregation back on tempo during appropriate sections of a song.

While organ and piano are great with traditional worship hymns or songs, the newer arranger keyboards can really fit the bill for the newer contemporary songs and arrangements. Keeping with traditional instruments or some orchestral sounds and voices, proper reverence can be made to the worship setting.

For me, a full featured TOTL arranger like the Korg PA4X can help my arrangements whenever I would use my arranger keyboard for congregational singing, for both traditional organ and piano, but also up to full orchestral arrangements for the newer contemporary song pieces. Even though I would probably be right at home after learning the Korg OS, I presently use my Tyros 5.

Most contemporary worship songs lean even better to an arranger keyboard, especially if you are the solo musician. I find with a tasteful drum kit and rhythm track, a congregation will follow your keyboard playing better on an arranger keyboard then perhaps playing just the organ or piano arrangement. The more real or authentic the arrangement sounds, the congregation loves to respond.

Personally, I am not a fan of electric guitars or rock type music for this purpose, but maybe there are the occasional purpose that type of sound. Maybe it works for certain situations, but I think not suitable for worship. Maybe in the same way, some people will only insist on only using the traditional organ or piano. Some denominations don't even allow musical instruments.

Anyway, I am a big supporter for arranger keyboards, done correctly, for worship music. The Korg PA4X would not disappoint.

Marcus
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#413694 - 12/27/15 07:20 AM Re: PA 4X [Re: shueymusic]
Steve A Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 287
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted By: shueymusic
I've lead worship in the Contemporary setting since 2004. I work out my arrangements a head of time.

After 11 years, I have over 230 praise and worship songs sequenced. After a few years of one arrangement, I do update as needed..



So you use sequences instead of pre-thought styles....I like the sryle method because I'm not locked into a song structure and can extend a Chorus. I will have to sequence certain songs so I can play my acoustic with a full arrangement....Can't play both instrumentsat the same time just yet.....

Do you have any styles that are compatible for my board that work great for Contemporary Worship?
_________________________
Steve A http://www.stevealtonian.com
12 fret-Breedlove American C25 SME-Neumann KMS 105-Neumann TLM49

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#413714 - 12/28/15 04:05 AM Re: PA 4X [Re: Steve A]
guitpic1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/16/14
Posts: 1879
Loc: MN
Occasionally we use our PSR at church to do special music. For the first time, in January, we are going to run the PSR through the house system....we get whomever is there to do the mix. The sanctuary holds about 500(my guess).

The worship leader uses a full 88 key electric piano(Kurzweil as I remember) and that seems to work.

We encourage the congregation to sing along on the chorus. We usually do a country or bluegrass style that has a bouncy beat and folks seem to do well with that.


Edited by guitpic1 (12/28/15 04:06 AM)
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#413770 - 12/28/15 10:09 PM Re: PA 4X [Re: hammer]
Torch Offline
Member

Registered: 12/17/12
Posts: 753
Originally Posted By: hammer
You bring up a funny point. I once played organ for church services and it was always a struggle to keep the people singing in time with the music. The minister finally told me to just keep playing and they would eventually catch on. They never did!

Oh yes, glad the PA4X is working out for you.

Deane


I wouldn't be surprised if some bad singers without the foggiest idea in the congregation said, "The organist just can't keep the tempo right." It kind of runs in the family starting with Adam. Kidding aside, well actually another funny story. A few years back when the BK7m came out, a number of people in our area bought it. A midi accordionist called me and said that there was something wrong with his BK7m and it did not keep the tempo. He had never played with an arranger before. I told him that probably there was nothing wrong with his machine. It was just his BK7m was brutally honest! He just burst into laughter and readily agreed that it was him and not the machine.
_________________________
"You Shall Know the Truth, and the Truth will set you free." John 8:32

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#413810 - 12/30/15 01:07 AM Re: PA 4X [Re: guitpic1]
guitpic1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/16/14
Posts: 1879
Loc: MN
I know next to nothing about Korg...still reading this thread and others has sure dampened my interest in considering PA 4X ownership.

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=100882

That said, I'm guessing there are many happy Korg arranger owners out there. Don't think the PA4X troubles speak to Korg as a whole.

Rog



Edited by guitpic1 (12/30/15 01:07 AM)
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#413812 - 12/30/15 07:12 AM Re: PA 4X [Re: guitpic1]
Bernie9 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5042
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
That thread was from before the bug fix if i'm not mistaken.
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pa4X 76 ,SX900, Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station, Bose compact

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#413814 - 12/30/15 07:32 AM Re: PA 4X [Re: guitpic1]
Steve A Offline
Member

Registered: 02/08/08
Posts: 287
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted By: guitpic1
I know next to nothing about Korg...still reading this thread and others has sure dampened my interest in considering PA 4X ownership.

Rog



Not sure why this thread would dampen your interest. They did early bug fixes . The first 2 OS updates took care of those. They released those 30 days apart. Most of the criticisms are "wish-lists" at this point.

I can use this live with no problems. 76 keys with a great keybed feel. Looks and plays like a professional keyboard. Styles and drums are amazing. Editing capabilities are pretty deep for an Arranger.

It's an exquisite keyboard that will take your music to the next level.....The response to me after this Sunday's service was they felt like they were in a conference setting with thousands of people.

Definitely a game changer for me as an artist
_________________________
Steve A http://www.stevealtonian.com
12 fret-Breedlove American C25 SME-Neumann KMS 105-Neumann TLM49

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#413821 - 12/30/15 08:37 AM Re: PA 4X [Re: guitpic1]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16348
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Yes, I believe most of the early problems have been addressed. That's why they held up shipping for several months.
I have one on the way, so we will see soon!
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DonM

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#413825 - 12/30/15 09:12 AM Re: PA 4X [Re: DonM]
KORG80 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/27/13
Posts: 654
Hey Don, what are you using in the meantime?

God Bless,
Don
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God Bless,
Don

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