Paul Drongowski aka pj is someone with lots of insight into the arranger technollogy, and many probably have visited his blog at SandSoftwareSound.net


This month he wrote about Yamahas current and future CPU lines, also indicating how expensive it is for Yamaha to build their own CPUs on SandSoftwareSound


While Yamaha is definately making steps with the upcomming instruments, its still clear that they are spending a lot of money while their technollogy is still very inferior compared to the latest ARM technollogy (phones and tablets) and Intel/amd technollogy..

Where pj indicates that the new upcomming processors can have a data troughput from flash memmory of 40 MB/s, current day SSDs in our PCs have a troughput of like 60Gb/s thats like 200 times as fast. And where an arranger can with a single intrface can have 128 voice poyphony max and not use the flash for anything else..

SSDs are so much faster then the expensive flash technollogy Yamaha is using. Stepping up to standard pc technollogy would make the instruments faster and cheaper (so far only Korg Kronos made this step) ... Where for example arrangers use 44.1, 16 bit sounds, current day audio standard is 96khz, 24bit.. And yes thats a difference you can hear if the DA converters are good enough.


I have no clue, why Yamaha, korg Italy and Roland dont make the step to the much faster and cheaper PC and tablet hardware..

Wouldn't that be something, if Apple developed an arranger or workstation keyboard. Super lightweight, probably as thin as the keys would allow, terrific touch screen and size, the latest processing power, and built in apps.

The issues I would have, no doubt cost, and probably only be able to buy and load content through iTunes. All said, probably would be a really nice keyboard.

Marcus

All they need to do is add arranger software(and other things you could use live) to Mainstage... And then everyone can use they keyboard of their choice..

I doubt, that for a professional product they will used a closed shop structure as on the ipad, after all, you can use your own samples..


I must admit that Varranger is making steps when it comes to a software arranger... Yet, it still lags behind totl arrangers when it comes to options...
- not having pads
- restricting themselves to the same style format (8 tracks 4 variations) as all other style brands..
- and many many more of those small things..
- no audio loops
However, if it would have run on Mac, i would have bought the Varranger software some time ago, if only to support the developer, thats really doing a good job and keeps pushing to be competitive with totl arrangers.. I cant wayt for the day that Varranger is the mostnpowerfull and flexible arranger on the market..

I agree, Dan is certainly striving for that goal. I will be happy when his third party synth engine is available. I use the SD2 and could use samples, but this is promising.

I think you are overlooking the Audya which streams most audio sounds direct from SSD for the past six years already...

Henni

I don't understand why Yamaha and Korg, can not instead of bringing out new models, offer hardware upgrades along with software.

It seems to me that the T5 and the new PA4X have plenty of room to expand both sample and feature data before having to release new models.

Also considering the IPAD, why on earth when you could develop an app to run things put a screen on the keyboard at all. much cheaper to make less complicated, and you could use mini ipad to ipad pro for your selections and so on.

Lastly i would be very happy to spend $1k to upgrade hardware in the arrangers rather than go out to procure a new one, and as the price of these machines keep going up it's getting harder to be able to do it. And they should be priced that same as flagship synths, not as they are way above that.

Only the style audio loops are streamed (And if you try and stream too many the system glitches due to old hardware) not the sounds, plus when streaming is mentioned it is usually associated with how sample VSTs work. (Which are ways beyond anything provided by any of the current pure hardware arrangers)

Bill

Because it is cheaper and more profitable not too

Korg yes, (They normally release at least one feature and content update during the lifespan) Yamaha always tend to operate on the limits so updates are minimal. (However with the addition of the iPad interface they may use this to add new features)

Not everybody has an iPad (Tablet), plus arrangers are designed for the home hobby player who usually prefers an all in one. (Could be a way to reach out to a younger generation though)

I agree (Wersi and Bohm owners have had this for years) however until 2010 with the release of the Wersi Pegasus Wing, they have always been significantly more expensive instruments then the run of the mill.

Arrangers cost more because of the cost of all the development of easy play features, (Press a button and everything is done for you) which most synth/workstation users have no use for.

Bill

thats never going to happen, the hardware costs to produce a new tyros should be around $300, the rest of their costs are software development related...

Development costs of an upgrade are equall to development costs of a new instrument... If they would sell that kind of updates for $1000 they would loose money.

the cost is not the issue. that's like the tail wagging the dog. these instruments could be updated with software at minimal cost to the companies apt from the loss to profits .

The primary focus is profit and each time Yamaha , Korg or any other manufacturer pushes out another instrument, with a minimal upgrade in terms of content, minimal hardware changes, and maximum recycled components from the excess stock they had in previous productions, they are doing so to make profit and maintain profit.

How much profit though you might ask ? Answer : As much as their loyal client bank will give them !!

Of what concern is processing power to customers that will buy a product that is 90% as similar to the one they bought the year before and the year before ? what are they doing differently on their instruments to merit greater precessing power ? nothing at all.

There are times when technology changes and becomes more and more affordable, so that more and better is possible. Arrangers are just pieces of technology and eventually they will change, just as they changed compared to let's say 15 years ago.

To me, it would make perfect sense to move it all in the software realm already! Exactly because most of the expenses are software related, why not turn it into computer programs that can be then targeted, modified, adjusted, etc very easily to suit each user really. I wonder, as I did many times before, who and when will take the plunge and come up with a completely software arranger, just like Dan did with his vArranger, which became it seems a very appealing alternative!

Then, one will only have to worry about the computer hardware that will best accommodate its needs.

Prefer that or that keybed? NO problem, you buy what you want. Need that screen or that screen? Larger? Smaller? There it is. Prefer western music? Eastern? Pop? Balkans? You just acquire the preferred packages and you're good to go.

I think was about 2 or 3 years ago when I gave it 10 years until we see it... I wonder...

I think the only company that had the best idea on paper were the Lionstracs but the marketing,high price and updates stunk, so, out of business. Now the only company that has potential from what I see currently would be Ketron, everyone else is just rehashing the same thing over and over and making small steps.

The idea and the mechanics of the lionstracs where bright

They failed where it comes to content.... If you build an arranger, first thing it requires is great sounds and awesome styles.. And lots and lots of presets that work out of the box. tHe idea of an arranger is to sit and play and build from there...


Where Ketron currently fails if giving customers the idea of buyingba reliable product, they have no marketing nor support startegy whatso ever here in europe. tOugh AJ seems to be doing a better job in the states..

I think after more then 6 years the audya is up for a replacement, interested to see where they will take it. But probably not going to buy it, i still have a very bad customer support feeling from my audya4 experience...

Hi

The idea in Lionstracs was good.

I actually had one for a short time.

I sold it due to lack of content; akward operation system; too many stuck sitations; hard to find relevant software to add...

It was not a finished product; but sure a good idea.

Jørgen

If you ask me, the only part good about their idea was an arranger pro workstation expanded with VSTs...

It needs to be build on top of one of the current totl arrangers, as they have the content and the interface...

But an arranger for sure first and foremost needs a perfect sit and play experience..



Sadly the current totl areanger builders are way to conservative to make a system like this... Tough i can see a workstation where you can add VSTs as well as arranger, karma and other realtime acomp modules...