The links posted are to products that would expand arrangers/organs up to a complete new level

Garritan: A good way to get started Garritan

Steinberg: Sounds and Effects Steinberg VST

Native Instruments: The Komplete bundles being the best value Bundles look at Sampled & Acoustic + Sound & Design for inspiration.

East West: Moving up in cost, however they really are top notch East West and they also come in bundles.

VSL: For orchestral work these are probably the best there is VSL but it can get expensive. (A number of the sounds also feature in Native Instruments Kontakt)

In addition to packages, there are many VST dedicated to just 1 type of instrument. (A number of links can be found below)

Piano: Pianoteq a sound modelling piano, Ivory possibly the best sampled pianos out there.

Guitar: Real Guitar is probably as good as it gets for acoustic Real Guitar they also do a good Stratocaster Real Strat

Organ Electronic: VB3 for a top notch Hammond and Vintage Organs Vintage Organs (which is included in the Native Instrument Komplete bundles) which as well as Hammond includes other popular organs.

Organ Classic/Theatre: Pipe Organ is probably the best there is at the moment.

Drums: Toontracks EzDrummer is good to get you going, however popular is BFD BFD

There are of course many others which a quick google search will find.

If you compare the prices of add on packages for arrangers/organs, you will soon come to the conclusion that they are very poor value compared to VST, as the VST gives you far more sounds and features, plus a quality of sound that leaves any current arranger/organ on the market sounding pretty shabby.

Hope this peaks your interest

Bill

This whole VST thing just confuses me, ....why would anyone buy let's say buy $5000.00 arranger like a Tyros5 and then want to additionally buy VSTs sounds ? why not just us a controller and a Pc or vArranger, etc...what is a person looking for in using these VST sounds vs the factory ones that sound amazing IMO already? ...isn't the arranger Kb enough to make great music?...seems like a big waste of money to me,.....but I could be wrong..
personally I wouldnt buy them or use them. Someone please enlighten me.

Donny, although I basically agree with you, it's still hard to hear the guy who went through three different arrangers in the course of a couple of months, talk about 'wasting money'.....unless, of course, you're renting.



chas

Exactly, find the arranger keyboard you like or a TOTL arranger keyboard if within budget. The awesome sounds, voices, and drumkits are there already, plus ability to arrange, edit, record or perform. If you got extra money for these expensive libraries, no excuse not to own or upgrade to your favorite TOTL arranger.

If you are more into PC programs and VTS libraries, then I guess you wouldn't be posting in a "General Arranger Keyboard Forum". Of course if you were looking for that unique sound or expansion libraries, one can certainly add VTS capability to their arranger through their computer or tablet.

The reference links were very useful to see presently what is out there for these possible expansion libraries. Everything depends on your needs and what you want to do with VTS add- ons, but I am satisfied with just an arranger keyboard.

Marcus

What does that have to do with VST's? & BTW Chas it was a couple of weeks just sayin'.....changing my Kb's or any gear shouldn't bother anyone else,.....I make MY decisions and test the waters so what?.....but If I ain't happy with them I'll just change gear till I am happy. The money is secondary.

For the same reason that that same guys buys expansion packs for Tyros 5....

While the tyros 5 is great as a complete package, you still cant compare most of its sound quallity to a VST setup... With VSTs you can stack 5 or 6 effects on every instrument.. And still have room for more.. This allows you to build much braoder sounds.. Good examples where VSTs blow away Tyros 5 are pianos, orchestral sounds ( imagine a whole ballanced orchestra of 76 musicians under your hands, with vellocity switching, articulations and ensemble sound splitting) and synth sounds, pads, choirs out of heaven, EPs that sound so close to real...

Where Tyros 5 shines is the fact that its so incredibly well ballanced that it almost never requires any edditing, all sounds are so well ballanced, to archieve the same ballance on a style player with VSTs takes you hours of edditing...

But with all my gear, if i had to choose a single board/instrument, i would still choose the Tyros above all my soft and hardware, because you switch it on and play away all evening long...

Now your talking bachus..

Nice collection Abacus... Personally i think the best way to start out when adding VSTs to an arranger is Komplete from NI, espescially with the new kontrol software it makes a remarkable comple instrument... From there you can start building..

Its just that good...


But it can allways get better in combination with a 2nd key..



This is how i like to play... Partly piano, partly arranger... I have my Tyros placed just above the Kronos... Trying to archieve this...

To be really homest, since i added the Kronos to the T5, i barely make any use of the VSts and modules...

Bachus thanx for sharing your work, nice setup...really enjoyed it!!

Great sound, great setup! Thank you for sharing!

Just come across this Live VST Host which was posted on another forum where I had also posted this article.

As it is designed for live play, it should be ideal to make VSTs available live with the minimum of effort for arranger users.

Enjoy

Bill

If you can get your hands on the upcomming version of NI kontrol or Akai VIP software, then they would make a perfect host for most arranger players.. As they present you with an easy browsable list of all your VST sounds... All in one neat place...

Both work very well witouth the intended controllers of NI and Akai.. The Akai software was available as a free download and the NI software comes with komplete for free..

I have set up my Zero SL to comtroll them and that works like a charm.. Its so nice for just playing around with these sounds at home




The best host for a live setup is Mainstage 3, only available on macbook, but its only €30 and comes with a whopping 120GB of VST sounds, all high class, the complete logic VST and VST effects collection.... If you have a. Macbook, then this is a must have if you want to start out with VSts...

All major keyboard players working from a software setup with VSts probably use mainstage 3...

Are there any video demos that showcase an arranger keyboardist ultilizing these VTS add ons in a complete song or gig session? What additional equipment or setup is required for complete VTS control using one's arranger keyboard?

The only manufacturer I am aware of that uses built in VTS expansion is Wersi, however, expensive, not very portable, hardly any user performance demos, and I don't think very popular. The Wersi forum here is completely dead.

If I took my Tyros 5 to my live performance using my principle S.Art2 voices ( I mean shabby voices ) there are VTS add ons that can improve the sound quality and realism of the players control over the nuances, slides, slurs, falls, breaths, runs, trills, aftertouch etc? Never mind the regular SA voices with the nuances built into how you play your notes to give that extra realism. Are there any performance demos showing a VTS sounding better or more authentic than a Tyros SA2 solo voice and user control?

If I was to use a Tyros 5 style, with the panel Audio Drums, or even the Real Drum kits, programmed SA or Mega style voices, or the vocal/choir style voices, how are VTS sounds going to match or beat the realism of the nuances built into the style voice programming?

Half my Tyros 5 drum kits are expansion, along with hundreds of expansion Custom Voices and compatible Soundfont, Wave, and AIF libraries. Most transferred over from my Tyros 4. Audio multi-pads can be added as well. Why would I need VTS add ons?

How is VTS add ons going to sound more realistic or controlled better than the Tyros 5 Ensemble feature, with string, brass, vocal, choir, mixed, or custom ensembles? The better voices, and control from the user is already there. Ensemble voices can be set to your Style OTS voices, plus played along with your midi file, styles, or multipads ( even all synced at the same time).

Coming from an organist and choir background, I can still enjoy choral ensembles, the Tyros 5 Concert organ sounds, Custom Hauptwerk Organ samples and when I setup my 2 Tyros 5s into a twinset with PK-6 midi bass pedals, I can have a killer instrument for a fraction of the cost of a modern home organ, plus one can be used in my home studio as the second Tyros 5 for my backup or travelling. Convenient, portable and no VTS required.

The popularity of these mid to the TOTL arrangers, no matter what brand suits the user, has far more advantages over a VTS setup. VTS seems far more suitable for workstations, studio work or productions. Most of the arranger owners are just that, solo players who want to compose, have a backup band, have fun, record, or perform live...and not sounding that shabby as well.

Marcus

Hi Marcus

This is the thread here that inspired to put together the article, however I was looking more for VST that could be used in a live environment, hence my update posting.

Regards

Bill

Hi Marcus,

Telmo works miracles using his Tyros in combination with VSTs..



Also check out all those other great videos he has using both his tyros and VSTs

I've just scanned through some threads in the big German musicians' board about using VSTi live. Some of the forum users are experienced band keyboardists, and the general trend is to say it's still to risky and unstable to rely on software on stage. As I own a Microsoft Surface Pro 3, I have considered using light VSTi, e.g. strings, in addition, but now I'm burying the idea once again after I read about all the risks and problems.
On Saturday I just had a church wedding 80 miles away where I played a movie score tune on my MoXF; I was nervous enough about whether the MoXF, all cables and speakers would be working properly - if I imagine I additionally had a VST running with a laptop, sound interface etc. with the additional risks involved, I come to the conclusion that my MoXF flash libraries and Roland SRX sounds are good enough...

Hi Bachus
Yes, I am familiar with Telmo's work and we posted back and forth several times in other forums. He used to run three Classic Sound modules with his Tyros 4 before upgrading to the Tyros 5. He is very creative and knows how to ultilize his sounds well and makes good use of his multipads, audio multipads and the different sounds he wants.

I once suggested that he would be very good as scoring sound tracks for movies or videos. Ironically I also suggested he would get good use out of the East West virtual instrument " Voices of Passion", being able to get vocalization effects on top of the other unique sounds he uses in his compositions. He was quite content with his Tyros at that time.

From the video, it looks like he added a second keyboard and synth sounds. He is not replacing the Tyros voices for better ones or ( better VTS), but using a second source to get different sounds that complement his Arranger sounds. Any additional sounds or voices, by any means, degrade the level of the original arranger voices, style, arrangement, audio multipads or minimize the use of his arranger or sound "shabby" in comparison.

Marcus

whats the difference in using a 2nd keyboard, or programming your tyros to play them directly.. in the end its a single composition

I know there are also some videos where he also uses them VSTs in some style tracks, just dont remember which ones, you need to find them yourselves by browsing his youtube videos..

Sure you are happy with your Tyros 5 duo (as am i).. it sounds great and suits almost every situation.. But did you know that all this great new technollogy that Yamaha throws into the Tyros was all introduced in VSTs long time before .. They only made it more and easy playable.. I am quite happy with the final sound quallity..


But when it comes to certain sounds, the Tyros still falls short... there is a lot of room for improvements...

Listen to LA strings... instead of an ensemble, they give you a full ORcghestra at your hands ..



Or this comparison of EZ drummer and Superior drummer, my favourite drum VST´s.... This technollogy shows that the best drums dont come from audio drum tracks, but from sampled drums with many vellocity layers and round robin



And then offcourse there is realistic piano acoustic piano sounds, as Abacus said, there is Ivory2 as the best sampled library, with amny orriginal top brands of concert grands ... personally i like pianoteq 5 more.. its a virtual modelled instrument, calculated by computers and has a fairly light CPU load..




or the virtual modelled synths from Arturia.. perfect Virtual analogue copies of the orriginal synths of the past..



Or just the next level of choirs, espescially for those playing in worship





You probably know how diverse the world of VSt's is...


Now where Yamaha has been really good at in Tyros in creating really easy accessible versions of these VSt technollogy advancements into the Tyros range..

And i hope to see some of the above technollogies making it into the next version of Tyros, things like we have seen in the recently released reface range would work very well in a Tyros too..

Untill that time, adding VST's to an arranger is the step i have been wayting for... Wersi currently is doing a great job with their OAX, taking VSTs a step further then the OAS... personally i hope for an arranger that allows you integration of VSTs that run on a remote PC/MAC much l;ike Akai is doing with VIP, or NI is doing with Kontroll, or even better Nektar and panorama.. If you make the arranger a 16 channel audio interface accessible from and to the PC..

All professional musicians that use them in concerts have a backup build ... Same goes for hardware, you need to have backup hardware on stage when doing a serious concert..

And i must say, i never have my AU units or VSTs crashing on macbook.... Its incredibly reliable...

Hi Bachus
Wow, thanks for the time and explanations you put into your above post. Yes, definitely the potential is there to tap into some nice quality sounds. Still can get pretty complex.

Like you say, the ultimate answer is integrating the various VTS into the arranger board and easily accessible, like the Wersi. Yes, I try to stay up to date with the latest technologies and do use some VTS engines on my PC and some programs.

Like a previous mentioned, I still think VTS technology is more suited towards studio or a workstation type keyboard, but awesome you were able to work that technology into your Wedding service.

For real good piano, besides the higher quality piano VTS, to give it justice for playing or recording, one would really need a 76 or 88 key weighted controller. Personally, I mostly play traditional instrument voices and don't need synth sounds. In my younger years I did have fun with a patchable Korg MS-20 and other synth hardware.

Yes, round-robin drumming...very realistic. It has its uses for a very real drum track, but for most of my arranger style playing, the drums and pianos sound quite authentic in the final mix. I have more than enough expansion drum kits to cover my different songs, but I understand some wanting to improve or specialize the sound further to suit their needs.

As far as most VTS instruments, including choirs or strings, the Tyros certainly delivers. My take is, an arranger keyboard is designed to give you all the sounds, functions, styles, and creative potential to help you compose, perform live, or record in one convenient keyboard.

I still cannot find a VTS that can deliver the realism or user control, in real time, then the Tyros 5 SA2 voices. The choir and vocal effects are uncanning, especially how Yamaha programmed then into their styles. For general mainstream use, you cannot best an all-in- one arranger keyboard. For those needed more, sure go ahead add the necessary sounds and capacity, but in my case I don't need the extra complications. Just the great sounds and control to create my music, songs, and perform.

Okay, I accept and respect those who need more than what an arranger delivers, but I guess as technolgy progresses, that gap will narrow or blur. Great forum, love to hear what other musician are doing, creating or performing. Without support from these forums, I wouldn't know or maximize this latest technology to the best level I try to strive for.

Regards, Marcus

I'm a bit confused, do you play on weddings with VSTi, Bachus?
I said in a post that I just had a church wedding, and I would not use a laptop for that purpose.

No thats not me... I think Marcus was mixing things up,

My apologies, I did mixed things up. It was from Rosetree's post that he composed movie score tune on his MoXF from samples for a Wedding. I assumed the sample library was originally from a VTS library. I was glad that, because of the importance of a wedding service, all went well.
Marcus