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#398237 - 01/15/15 08:09 AM Re: Active PA..trend toward line array systems [Re: guitpic1]
rosetree
Unregistered


I would clearly opt for the stereo system then, i.e. Nano 300.

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#398243 - 01/15/15 08:56 AM Re: Active PA..trend toward line array systems [Re: guitpic1]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15559
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
The Nano 300 is a nice system, especially for smaller venues where you don't have to worry about falloff. And, keep in mind that the stereo effect is quite small. Pretty much everyone hears mono in the room. The only true benefit from stereo is that fuller sounds of right hand instruments that are heavily stereo sampled, pianos mainly. So, if you are really heavy into the piano, then stereo can be very beneficial to you. But, if you kick into the guitars, horns, saxes, brass, it makes no difference at all.

Now, if eventually you begin performing larger venues, the falloff of the 300 can be problematic. That falloff is significant, but not as dramatic as some of the older, conventional sound systems. Some of the older systems had up to 50 percent falloff at 50 feet, which was nasty. Consequently, the band cranked up the volume to distortion levels in order to reach those in the back of the room with reasonable levels of volume, thereby blowing the heads off those individuals closer to the speakers. This problem was eliminated when Bose came out with the L1 PAS system several years ago, where the falloff was less than 10 percent at 100 feet. Big difference between the stacked vertical array and conventional sound systems.

I only brought a single L1 Compact with me to Florida, and I'll be performing outdoors. That system easily handled audiences to 250 ppl a few years ago and carried out across Boot Key harbor for incredible distances. It sure made a believer out of me, and many of the other visiting musicians there whom also sold their old systems and went with Bose.

All the best,

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#398244 - 01/15/15 09:26 AM Re: Active PA..trend toward line array systems [Re: guitpic1]
rosetree
Unregistered


To me the worst sound in mono are string sections. Beautiful, realistic string samples lose everything if they are amplified in mono. Yamaha Motif acoustic guitars excel because they have stereo samples too.
I think in medium rooms most listeners do perceive a certain degree of the stereo effect. But it depends a lot on the type of music played, in my case, e.g. when emulating a symphony orchestral sounds, it is very important. For dance music, it's surely less important.

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#398246 - 01/15/15 10:13 AM Re: Active PA..trend toward line array systems [Re: guitpic1]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15559
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
This is true, those strings always sound fantastic in stereo, and those acoustic guitars are fabulous. However, there is a simple formula for stereo. It can only be heard effectively in an area that is an equilateral triangle based upon the spread of the speakers. Therefore, if the speakers are 30 feet apart, the triangular stereo effect area only extends to 30 feet directly in front of the speakers. Once you get outside that triangle, the effect is lost. Now, the overall sound quality is not lost, instead it becomes mixed, but still sounds very, very good. No argument there. The person that tends to benefit most from stereo is the performer himself. He, or she, is positioned in the perfect spot to enjoy that wonderful stereo sampling that Yamaha seems to excel with in several unique sounds.

And, you are right about the dance music - which is highly dependent upon the bass, drums and vocals, or lead instrument(s). Symphony is a totally different animal in this respect. Ironically, when I was a much younger man, I installed sound systems for a company called Executone. We put systems in very large theaters, locations where the Baltimore Symphony frequently provided concerts. All of those systems were mono - not stereo. We used vertical array sound columns in each corner of the venues, some weighing up to 150 pounds each and sporting a dozen or more 8-inch speakers in the sound column. They were suspended from the corners of the room and curved so the sound would project towards the middle of the venue. We then placed subs beneath the stage, and a circular array of speakers in the middle of he ceiling. It was a nasty, often dangerous job, and I only worked there for a year when I decided to quit before I ended up getting myself killed from an accidental fall. Just after I left, a scaffolding fell 30 feet to the floor or a large cathedral where three installers were seriously injured. One of them never was able to return to work because of his back injuries from that fall.

Cheers,

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#398249 - 01/15/15 12:16 PM Re: Active PA..trend toward line array systems [Re: guitpic1]
rosetree
Unregistered


I am convinced some stereo can be perceived way outside of the triangle you mentioned. It is probably no "effective" stereo (whatever that is exactly), but a residual perception of the spacial stereo dimension in a sound.
The link below is a recording of a wedding I had in 2012. My recorder was placed on the organ gallery at the opposite side of the church to where the singer and I were placed, at a distance of at least 130-150 feet. My speakers were placed on one keyboard stand, only 3 feet from each other. But nevertheless, I can still detect a slight stereo in my piano sound at this distance if I listen to the recording with headphones. It would sound different if my system had been mono. (BTW, back then I used the BK-7m).
https://soundcloud.com/rorosetree/hochzeitsmusik-somewhere

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#398251 - 01/15/15 12:32 PM Re: Active PA..trend toward line array systems [Re: guitpic1]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15559
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Good song, but I believe what you were hearing is not stereo, but instead, the echo of the piano, at least that's the way it sounds to my aging ears.

The absolutely best stereo effects recording I've heard in my entire life was done by Ferrante and Teicher



Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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