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#395712 - 11/10/14 09:13 PM Re: Is this the Beginning of the End for Arranger KBs? [Re: Dnj]
brickboo Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 2068
Loc: Fruita, Colorado, USA
About not being able to improve on arrangers or whatever. It calls to mind a documentary I saw a few years back on PBS I think that stated that the head of the patent office for the USA wanted to shut it down, because he said that everything was already invented. He said there is nothing new to invent. This was in the 1890's
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#395718 - 11/11/14 03:57 AM Re: Is this the Beginning of the End for Arranger KBs? [Re: Dnj]
montunoman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 2371
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Our perception of arranger keyboards in the U.S.A. is very different then other countries. When I visit Mexico I typically see OMB performing at restaurants, hotels, and all sorts of events. Maybe arranger keyboards just never caught on here?
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#395719 - 11/11/14 04:02 AM Re: Is this the Beginning of the End for Arranger KBs? [Re: Dnj]
spalding1968 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1230
Loc: United Kingdom
There are still new people buying arranger keyboards for the first time ,for them, it is a miracle instrument that is an answered prayer to their needs. Although we are used to all the features that we have experienced in arrangers over the years ,many people who have just discovered arranger keyboards have just started on their love affair and features that are old to us new to them. So long as there are individuals that want to create full sounding music easily, then arranger keyboards will have a market . And so long as people still enjoy listening to live music then there will be an audience for one man bands

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#395724 - 11/11/14 06:05 AM Re: Is this the Beginning of the End for Arranger KBs? [Re: Dnj]
DonM Online   elvis
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 15696
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
I've seen many wonderfully talented Mexican guys playing arrangers both here and in Mexico. Most I've seen don't have the latest totl models, but sound great on what they have.
Just recently heard one using a PSR2000. Terrific sound!
I have sold psr 8000, Tyros 2, and pa3x to friends of mine south of the border!
On all occasions a relative living in the US delivered it to them.
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#395726 - 11/11/14 07:06 AM Re: Is this the Beginning of the End for Arranger KBs? [Re: Dnj]
Bill Lewis Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 1904
Loc: Bluffton/Hilton Head SC USA
Well here's the view from Southern NJ and this being a tourist area I think its a good representative of a lot of the US now. I may have missed something hidden in a corner but I do monitor the local scene pretty well.

Live Bands -- a Few. 5 -9 piece show/dance groups that travel in for special gigs.
One very good local Blues Band that works about 2 times a month
2/3 piece groups with Backing tracks. --- A lot and more that travel into the area
Guitar player /singers with / without backing tracks--- A million and counting . Lots doing "Open Mics" for free.
DJs who sing with tracks or just DJ. A handfull, some working for tuna sandwiches.
Solo Pianists --- Three, but spotty gigs. Two travel in ( both with International Resumes ) and a local guy just got cut by a local winery so two who are working.
Solo singer who sings with tracks from his keyboard --- 1
Does the same act and uses the same tracks with his Wedding band.
Arranger OMB's ---Me, thats makes 1, but I also DJ and am moving into backing tracks. Otherwise none, nada, zilch , 0, not even in NH.

So how does that translate into instrument sales, which drive manufactures to bring out new models, which is what we started the thread about ? Very low percentage of working musicians using them but I can't speak for the home hobbist.
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#395730 - 11/11/14 07:47 AM Re: Is this the Beginning of the End for Arranger KBs? [Re: Bill Lewis]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 39964
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: Bill Lewis
Well here's the view from Southern NJ and this being a tourist area I think its a good representative of a lot of the US now. I may have missed something hidden in a corner but I do monitor the local scene pretty well.

Live Bands -- a Few. 5 -9 piece show/dance groups that travel in for special gigs.
One very good local Blues Band that works about 2 times a month
2/3 piece groups with Backing tracks. --- A lot and more that travel into the area
Guitar player /singers with / without backing tracks--- A million and counting . Lots doing "Open Mics" for free.
DJs who sing with tracks or just DJ. A handfull, some working for tuna sandwiches.
Solo Pianists --- Three, but spotty gigs. Two travel in ( both with International Resumes ) and a local guy just got cut by a local winery so two who are working.
Solo singer who sings with tracks from his keyboard --- 1
Does the same act and uses the same tracks with his Wedding band.
Arranger OMB's ---Me, thats makes 1, but I also DJ and am moving into backing tracks. Otherwise none, nada, zilch , 0, not even in NH.

So how does that translate into instrument sales, which drive manufactures to bring out new models, which is what we started the thread about ? Very low percentage of working musicians using them but I can't speak for the home hobbist.


Ezxactly Bill as the OP Title says...
"Is this the Beginning of the End for NEW Arranger KBs" it should say.. cool2

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#395734 - 11/11/14 08:12 AM Re: Is this the Beginning of the End for Arranger KBs? [Re: Dnj]
DonM Online   elvis
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 15696
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Despite this gathering of pros, semi-pros and advanced enthusiasts, I would think the largest market in the U.S. is home players, many who years ago would be playing pianos or organs. If you want to talk about a dying market, try either of those instruments.
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#395738 - 11/11/14 08:21 AM Re: Is this the Beginning of the End for Arranger KBs? [Re: Dnj]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4862
Loc: English Riviera, UK
As mentioned in previous threads, all the manufactures say (Off the record) that arranger sales are on the slide, with the main clientele being 70+ and using about 2% of current arranger keyboards capabilities, thus it will have to change or go the way of the organ market in the late 90s on.

Ironically with advent of new entry level organs (And the adaptions of arrangers into organ style setups) organs are making a resurgence. (It’s never going to go back to what it was but it is encouraging) Basically users are getting fed up of pressing a button and playing along to a style, but instead want to try full playing themselves, (Which is much more satisfying)

If you think about it everybody enjoyed the music made before styles, using just a drum box, and the artist could be identified by their playing style, (Something that is virtually none existent on arrangers) which made them stand out.

Arrangers need to change if they are to survive, (Rumours are abound that Yamaha is working on something new to get themselves out of the downward spiral) and sticking your head in the sand is not going to cut it.

Bill
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#395751 - 11/11/14 01:44 PM Re: Is this the Beginning of the End for Arranger KBs? [Re: Dnj]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 14371
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
I talked to one of the PR guys at Yamaha a decade ago about the makeup of the consumers for arranger keyboards. He said it's very similar to the makeup of those who previously purchased organs. Less than 1/10th of 1-percent are pros and semi-pro musicians, the remainder are home players. And that's who every keyboard manufacturer markets to - not guys like us on this and a few other forums. We are nothing than a speck of fly crap in a mountain of pepper. In fact, I'm amazed that Yamaha and other manufacturers has responded to our wishes as much as they have. For the most part, they have granted nearly all our wishes during the past 20 years.

Bill, I'm amazed that there are not more OMB entertainers in NJ using arranger keyboards. Granted, there's only a handful of us in my part of the mid-Atlantic region, but I would think that there would be far more in your area, mainly because of the number of retirement communities and assisted living centers. Down here, in the frozen wilds of Maryland, retirement communities are springing up all over the place, and the demand for guys like me is incredible.

In the Florida Keys, especially during the height of tourist season, there are hundreds of places that have musical entertainment nearly every night of the week. For the most part, it's "Have Guitar Will Travel" entertainers that by and large, are not really very versatile. Consequently, when an OMB entertainer that can sing well, and has a reasonably good arranger keyboard, and can read an audience shows up, the guitar guys usually take a back seat. I talked with a friend in Washington State that also has more jobs than he can handle, and he charges about the same as I do.

Now, I don't use many mid files and absolutely no MP3 backing tracks. And, I only know of one OMB guy in my part of the mid-Atlantic region that does, and he only performs once a week at most. Those of us that pretty much use the onboard styles and can sing fairly well are working 5 to 7 days a week, often doing a fair number of doubles and a some triples. That has to tell you something.

Good luck,

Gary cool
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#395769 - 11/11/14 09:26 PM Re: Is this the Beginning of the End for Arranger KBs? [Re: Dnj]
Mark79100 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/23/06
Posts: 1501
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Dnj
All I can do is hope Winter NAMM 2015 brings some ground breaking NEW designs in arranger KB's...fingers crossed.


We don’t need better arranger keyboards. We need better musicians to play what we already have because the law of diminishing returns, reference arrangers, is finally beginning to surface. Really.....the only thing left is for the manufacturer to stock up the OS with pre-set songs so you can just press the stop for whatever tune you want and move your hands like you’re playing.

But let me correct what I just said. We don’t need just “better musicians.” We need musicians playing arranger keyboards “better.”

Many play arranger keyboards, but few players really milk the keyboard dry with everything that it’s capable of doing now!

View Don's post #395724

QUOTE: "I've seen many wonderfully talented Mexican guys playing arrangers both here and in Mexico. Most I've seen don't have the latest totl models, but sound great on what they have."

It appears the more gimmicks a keyboard has, the more the player relies on it to do all the work.

Mark

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