nice candidat for vArranger

The hammond sounds so guttsy ....& I for one would love to see a demo of that too Dan...

It would make a great mix, as would the audya 4...

I however do prefer the Nord C2D, which is an awesome beast to this hammond..



Perfect setup for Varranger however would be Orla swiftkey with roland integra 7 ,,,,.....
Thats something i would love to see you testing Dan...

I don't know if this Hammond has velocity keys....

The Orla Jamkey seems to be a dream http://jamkey.net/

Not sure if we can control the leds of it like I have done with korg nanokontrol 2 and Novation SLMKII

I have tested integra 7 and was not so impressed about it.

Now I tend to prefer to play with 100% virtual instruments.

I think you are on the right track here.

The use of more and more powerful computers, the touch screens and the virtual instruments makes the future. Keep all (or as much as possible) in the software realm will make your product actual, flexible, efficient.

What VI would you recommend to use with vArranger (beside the NI Products)? Could be the new SampleTank 3 a good choice? Did you get the chance to test it with this?

Well, I guess that takes care of the argument against vArranger that you have to buy a module as well as the program

Before, virtual instruments were possibles, but we need to setup a virtual midi cable, and a VST host ...

Now it is even simpler, as vArranger includes a VST HOST with ASIO/WASAPI low latency output. It also includes a powerful virtual instrument that can load SoundFonts samples.

Now, I tend to prefer to use the included synth with soundfonts for the accomp parts, because I am sure of his behaviour. It is full GM2 compliant. It reacts perfectly to program changes. Most of VST instruments are not 100% GM compatible.

I reserve the big VST instruments for my Right hand solo voices, that can be controlled from vArranger

This is something recent in vArranger, and I still discovering all what can be done, but ... WOW !

I don't want to go hardware anymore

Dan do you have NEW Video demos of vArranger being "Set Up" and in full use in live play ?

. If you have the latest version of NI komplete, or just Kontakt, then sample tank does not add much, it has the almost the same function as Kontakt, ...

If you want something special and stellar sounding, i can only advise people to go for Komplete Ultimate, which is the perfect startout for any virtuall setup... And the build from there..

Pianteq ..... For perfect piano sound, expandable with just about any major piano sound
Omnsphere .... The best sounding VST with several different synthesis
alchemy, zebra2, blue 2 if you like realtime controllable synthesizers
Or have a look at the arturia synth packs, they have emulations of almost all great analog synths from the past..

And if you want to improve your acoustic sounds, EWQL range of instrument packs is also a great way to go, probably the best acoustic instruments in the world..

And if you like churchorgans, then Hauptwerk is a must


And then there is VST effects, you want to invest in a good set of effects, there is so much going here, and they will hugely improve your sound...



But so far, its komplete ultimate, that gives you allmost everything you will ever need, not the best, but quite a bit better then most hardware synths and arrangers

Thats why i suggested the integra 7, it has a great GM2 set, Roland has allways been the king of GN2 sounds ever since their orriginal SC... But if you say that you have a great software solution with a vst loading soundfonts, then i guess thats even better... Did i understand correctly that Varranger ships with this VST?


Still hoping you will be adding rewire support to the Varranger, it will allow people to integrate the Varranger with their professional DAW.. Allowing for new potential buyers..

It all sounds so complicated that's why players rather just buy a nice arranger T5, Pa3x etc, and have it all in one. I may be wrong but Most have no idea about all this VST stuff and just want to power up and play. You can have all the VST sounds you like but in the end its still not the original instruments and honestly what we have today in Arranger Kb, & Workstations is more then enough & close enough sound realism for me. For myself on stage I could never use a computer based setup as the navigation vs an all in one unit is much more difficult in a Live "on stage" OMB playing situation when making lightning fast onboard button changes,...
in a studio recording is another story. If I could be proven wrong I's invite the opportunity to see that happen. Just my take on this ..

The software is not more difficult, but it surely is different. Like all other things, one could learn the new workflow, if so has the inclination to do. But the flexibility is great. It is not yet a mature, stabile and reliable to compete with the classic hardware arranger, but it will slowly get there.

I am talking from a Prof live KB performers OMB live stage playing view.
If I could use a laptop and a controller KB as proficiently as an all in one arranger KB I'd be there in a minute .....
but as you say above...."It will slowly get there"

Donny nailed it for me. I'm not, or ever, about to enter geekdom. I'm happy to rock on with my Korg as is - I don't need anything else.

As it is now I manage with workarounds using my S-950....but I do miss many things from all my KORGs including my Pa3x,...and from my Tyros & Roland & Ketron units also. But I weighed all the needs and at this time make it all work even with the drawbacks for my needs on stage EVERY DAY & NIGHT IN THE TRANCHES...I hopefully await what will available in the future and only then when I demo and see if the sound & navigational features fit MY Needs I will make a change again. But as of now it's all Apples & Oranges.

For what its worth I'm finding myself doing more Piano with simplier backing on my gigs. All the programming I've done for other sounds is just not that important. Maybe a sax, guitar or organ solo thrown in sparingly. Keep the vocals up front and have good bass and drums and for the most part your there. I don't even use the great Hammond sounds in my BK9 much.

Thats for live work. For Studio or Recording projects bring on all the new toys.

I feel that no matter how good the samples sound, it's depends mainly on the player's skill to make them sound convincingly realistic.

Knowing how the real-life instrument responds to the player, and the keyboard player having (or developing) the skills necessary to make the virtual instrument (whether in an arranger or as a VST) respond in a life-like manner, makes a big difference.

Some VST's and samples (Yamaha's SA/SA2 and Korg's DNC) have performance enhancers built in, but it still boils down to the virtuosity (and instrument knowledge) of the player.

Ian

Good points .... what your saying above Ian makes all the difference as a player. Years of live stage experience playing with a band is essential besides knowing how to emulate using an arranger keyboard using all the sounds required "played correctly" to make the whole package believable. This is where many players lack knowledge and it will always show when your listening. You have to "think like a "group playing",...."think & know how to" as if you were really playing that instrument playing it "within it's perimeters" also. An arranger is a very complex instrument that can sound fantastic or the complete opposite in the wrong hands as a solo OMB or sitting in the mix accompanying a vocalist.

Its not more complicated, well... Not much at last as long as you are very proficient with computers in general and music software in special...
The G70 i bought this weekend for the kids comes with a manuall of over 350 pages, FL studio comes with a manuall just as extensive but not even 200 pages.. Same goes for every VST i own... Instruments like G70 or PA3x are just as complicated.. Yamaha in general is a bit easier...

The biggest difference from software instrument setups, is that nothing works out of the box, and everything needs to be tweaked or tuned, which is time many around here would rather spend just playing their instruments..

Me myself is very happy with my T5, and the ocassionall ( mostly synth ... And offcourse a decent piano) VST sounds on top of that... The power of the T5 compared to many VST sounds is that they are built to be played in real time, where in the VST world many of the best sounds are archieved by tweaking in the mixdown.. To get the most out of NI strings for example, you need like 9 pedals to choose articulations in real time...it can be done, but then it might drive most people crazy

I'm pretty savvy when it comes to most geeky things, but when it comes to being an entertainer, I know what my audiences want, and how to deliver it in the most effective manner. Punching PC keys and using a controller just ain't gonna cut it for me, or my audiences. As anyone that has been an OMB entertainer for more than a few days will tell you, it's hard enough to convince our audiences that we are really up there playing and singing, and some electronic gizmo is not doing all the work and we're just lip-synching. I wish I had a dollar for ever time I've heard someone say, "It's really him singing." And, just about every time you perform in front of a new audience someone will ultimately come up and start up a conversation while you are playing and singing, as if you could just stop doing both and the music and singing would continue without you.

Give me my all in one package, my arranger keyboard, and a good vocal processor, and I'll do the rest. I need instant access to songs, styles and voices, and the arranger keyboards provide that access with little or no effort on my part. I need to be able to transition from one song to the next in less than a second, and have all those voices I saved in the registration show up on the OTS right where I want them. And, those OTS voices, IMO, really sound realistic from just about every arranger keyboard I've owned over the past two decades.

Cheers,

Gary

Bachus do you perform publicly often using the VST setup?

Give me a song name, and I will try to play it on a video + vArranger

No Donny, by now i tought everyone knew i am not a performer... I only play evenings at home in my little music room also known as home studio..

Last time i performed live was over 15 years ago... It was nerfbreaking, each and every time, so in the end, i decided to stick to my musicroom..

However, if i would play on stage, and a song needed something that was not available in the hardware ( which is very rare when you have a T5) then i would use A VST... And if i performed OMB and if i wanted to do some of the modern Deejay stuff ( the stuff you showed in those videos Donny) then i would need to use a DAW like live or FL studio combined with something like an APC 40 or push or maschine.... In combination with VSTs

queen, bohemian rhapsody... Including vocals ... ( offcourse only if everyone agrees )

No disrespect Bachus, .....it's just that sometimes advice from
non pro players whomever they may be who do not perform every day on stage for a living tends to be not suited or maybe not the information needed as a home player vs a working pro. Not that it's not appreciated but without the experience of performing in front of people under the pressures of an audience night after night for many many years is a big difference then someone who plays in their home.
We always can still learn from each other and that is a good thing.

Bohemian Rapsody is too much hard for my playing

Another try?

Dan just pick your own song that YOUR comfortable playing......

Bachus, do you know to play the queen song with an arranger?

Dnj, I want to play something on demand for this video, to be more exited about this task

Bachus,

You are wise for doing music the way YOU love to do it. Plus, it's people like you who spend great amounts of time on VST's and other products, that can pass on your knowledge to those of us who, either haven't had the time to play around with these products, or have been using more dedicated instruments that are easier (or simpler) to use when performing live.

Whatever works best for you.

I know, since my retirement, I thoroughly enjoy playing the music I want to play, instead of having to play according to the whims and wishes of an audience.

Ian

Both Stage performers and Home performers...know quality VST's are superior sound over current arranger keyboards..

It's actually a matter of what's convenient and/or whatever suits your needs.

Ian

Ian Performing live is my passion...the battery between a live audience & a performer is magical !!!

No comparison Fran in navigation arr vs vst on a pc etc....playing live.....none Imo.....that's what I'm talking about..

Depends on the performer, of course, and quite often it is simply the "entertainment" factor that wows the audience rather than pure playing skills.

I like playing at home every bit as much as playing live, and I like the change, at least for now.

If I get bored, I can always pick up a gig or two and have some fun.

It's all about having the choice.

Ian

Most stage keyboardists I know use dedicated VST players such a Muse Receptor or something similar.

VST's have never interested me for "live" performing, especially with an arranger, although, now that I have more studio and home playing time, I may find them useful, especially in recording.

Still, the Tyros4 does an admirable job for my needs.

Ian

Muse receptor is one of those things that removes the hassle from using VSTs..

Once you created a new sound, just save it in your muse playing list... and it works just like any other module on stage, send midi program changes and use that most awesome piano...

it just takes loads of times to set up....

Early last year, one of the guys using the studio brought in a Neko 64 but we didn't get the chance to use it and used our now since retired Roland Jupiter 8 instead. He was wanting analog strings, and the Roland did the job very nicely so I did not get a chance to hear the Neko.

Have you ever used a Neko or something similar?

Ian

Dan, how about one of the most requested songs of all time, Brown-eyed Girl. It will be easy to compare it to our own arrangers, as I'm sure the vast majority of do it.
Thanks,

no not really.... i always perceived the Neko as a chaotic collection of programs... there was no workflow that turned it into an instrument, so it never got ahead of a PC with an external midi keyboard... at a huge price...

Even lions tracks did better in creating an instrument, yet they failed to see that high quality sounds out of the box are a requirement..

i think the way to go in the future is a dedicated controller like Push, APC40 or even Maschine in combination with a daw and software has the future, because they offer a good workflow and dedicated control interface...

The upcoming NI komplete kontroll S keyboard might actually be the closest thing to turn a VST (the whole NI ultimate collection) into a hardware instrument, with a hardware workflow feel... I think they might succeed where Neko failed... a dedicated interface and workflow..



however, all these fancy DAW solutions mis one thing when compared to an arranger... and that is content... you need to create the content yourself. and even when they come with content like Varranger or live styler, you need to tweak every style until it sounds acceptable..



Thats why i returned from software to arrangers about 2 years ago... and just love it... On top of that, the playability of the T5 SA2 and Ensemble voices beats almost all VSTs, unless you like controlling an instrument with 39 keys, 7 switches and 3 wheels in realtime...


Things are changing to slow.... but if software finally grows to maturity, it will be because of people like Dan

mmm... I have a better idea

You post here a Yamaha, Ketron, Roland or Korg style, and tell me a song to play with this style and vArranger.

I will record demo with that !

Sounds great...

Finally got a handle on my SK1-73 with a BK7m. Sounds great. Biggest problem, as Donny stated earlier, is the excess of everything - cords, boxes, instruments, etc. I'm still balking at taking it out because using the s950 is so simple. I've even been reprimanded for not going the BK9 route, but that's water under the bridge. You know what looks good right now is that new B9 stomp box drawbar clone. I'd like to see a dedicated piano to improve the sound of my s950.

"YOU'RE"

Cassp, if you're interested, I'll be more than happy to send you my piano voice for the S-950 that is a huge improvement over the onboard piano. No charge.

Gary

Thats the same with the T5... I still dont understand why they never added the CVP top model piano sound and piano room to the T5....

Dave dont you speak "Brooklynese"?

Cass I hear ya on hookin' up all that gear on a gig, ......
you never miss anything till you ain't got it no more...

I will do a video soon.

Here is a thing I have just recorded live with vArranger.
I was not creating a demo, but just testing the new version of vArranger to track a bug and pressed the MP3 REC button.

http://www.varranger.com/audio/testvamj.mp3

Considerations :
- Played on my bed with Korg microkey 37 and a laptop ! this is 37 mini keys
- I was using a very tiny 8MB soundset. Oldschool Reminder from 90's
- I was testing a free (and bad) VST reverb and delay (kjaerhus)
- I have played a bit of NI B4II organ VST, switching sound is direct
- This style is out of the box from Tyros 4 with no adjustments. Don't cry about the choir sound please
- I used the vA Chord Loop feature for the 2 chords Am / D, so I can solo a bit with the pitch bend

Dan thanx for sharing, ....my personal concerns are NAVIGATION using the vArranger & a KB while playing in REAL TIME vs an All in One Arranger KB "not the sounds" .......I would also like to see short videos demos of someone playing using vArranger & a KB while changing sounds, changing styles, searching for songs setups or registrations while playing....and singing.
I'd also like to see all the gear that needs to be used in this setup...I'm sure other prof gigging players have these same Real World concerns.

Thanx

mmm... The new Microsoft Surface Pro 3 is very good for vArranger.

You can change style on the touch screen.

Create your 20 OTS for each song, at home, and change them with touch screen or any midi controller.

I personally still use hardware arranger on usual live gigs, but use vArranger while giging far away and need to take train or airplane.

Last gig, I have used vArranger only to change sounds of my PSR keyborad

This PSR is limited to only Right 1 & Right 2. With vArranger I can play up to 5 layers together, and switch sounds more easily than on PSR

It was fun

Thanx for the reply Dan..... I understand.....
I guess vArranger isn't for everyone but does fill a Niche` for some players.

Yes I have every kind of clients
Everyone his reason to buy vArranger. It's like a swiss knife we are happy to have in our pockets

the surface pro 3 is the only tablet in the world i would use for serious music making.... However an all in one with a 27" touchscreen an i7 processor 16GB memmory and a 1gb SSD would fit even better...

Or have a look at the HP Z1... It blows away the competition...

How well is Varranger build for smaller touchscreens, i love it when the touched ellement grows in size as soon as you touch it, that works miracles on smaller touchscreens, if not, i would stick with a larger screen... Does it support multitouch? Many of the professionall daws dont, which makes them fail with touchscreens under windows 8.1

I think it gives non arranger owners a cheep way to get a high quallity arranger..

People that combine a DAW with Fa08, Kronos, Kurzweil, Motif, MOfx, Kurzweil, Nord stage, Jupiter 80...

I think the Varranger at only €300 allows a lot of people to enter the world of arrangers on top of what they allready play.. However, i think most hardcore arranger players might be better of with a hardware arranger..

I use a surface pro 1 with the 10" screen.
It is small but I am indulgent with myself and accept it because I love compact setup
My dev computer is a ACER R7 with an amazing 15.6" touch screen. It is very good.
27" is huge, for home players only. You don't have any excuses if you fail the button click
vArranger is auto-re-sizing and adapting to any screen. So everyone will decide.

We don't need multi touch in vArranger, but it is working. Windows 8.1 is perfect for vA.

Note : the vArranger synth , and the vst host are included with vArranger

VERY NICE!

Equipment not withstanding, I like some of the ideas and lead line structures and variations.

Thanks,


Russ

It's really true; equipment and ability are two completely different issues.


R.