YAMAHA, isn't it time for a New S-Series Arranger KB to replace the S-950?
HELLO?

What is the delay? Will Muisicmesse offer some clues, Or?
with the release of the T5 seems like it's time don't you think? Personally whenever it is released it better blow me away, "feature wise" for me to give up my precious S-950...
I guess like the rest of us we'll have to wait and see as always......

PS, Please hurry

I suspect a new S-series including a replacement for the PSR-S650 will follow in about a year...followed by a new CVP.

We may also see a new PSR-E-series as well as the next DGX digital piano-based arrangers.

But, sometimes launch schedules don't always line up as they used to, so it really may be a "wait and see".

I'm still exploring my Tyros4 and still very much enjoying what it does...in fact, there really isn't anything I would wish that it had, certainly nothing that was introduced on the Tyros5. The Audio Drum based styles (also on S950) do not impress me in the least, and are far too limited in their editing capabilities to be of any real use.

I think I'm through buying any arrangers for at least a few more years...which simply means I'm fortunate enough that my present Tyros4 covers all my needs.

Ian

HURRY, YAMAHA, HURRY !!! ...Donny is going through KCW -'Keyboard Change Withdrawal' - ... it's been over a year !!! ... HURRY before he does someth1ng DRASTIC like buy a G70 !!!

Donny ... I've got a Pa600 if you want something DIFFERENT for a while ...

I've got a bridge in Brooklyn for him to purchase before he buys a new keyboard, Tony. For me, I think the S-950 will be my last keyboard - EVER! I'll never need more than the S950 offers - I'm not that talented.

Gary

G70?..BEEN THERE DONE THAT

sorry boyz I am VERY content with my fabulous S-950
13 months baby a new personal record! Like I said only NEW FEATURES will sway me to buy the next S series, eg: NEW designed VH, MFD,etc, ....
The S-950 sounds & styles (except the audio styles ) are MORE then adequate for my needs.

I think it's great to look forward to new products, and there's always the oohs and aahs of new features, but, for my needs, the present arranger offerings are enough. In fact, the TOTL and MOTL offerings from Roland and Korg would also work fine for me, if I was to want a change.

Of course, Donny's post could indicate that the S950 isn't entirely what he wants, and perhaps it is missing a key feature that would make it complete for his needs.

I remember something he mentioned some time ago about the Music Finder (Yamaha's) not being entirely suited to his needs...is there hope for it to be differently implemented (and therefore, more useful) on the next S-Series?

Also the S950's VH-2 wasn't quite enough for his needs.

Ian

If Yamaha would just LISTEN to the players needs regarding "Features" everyone would be better off IMO.
For the VH all they have to do is A/B with any Tc Helicon to see they are miles away from a quality vocalizer on their arrangers.
Kudos to KORG for implementing a TC on their arrangers.
And Yamaha MFD is ANCIENT in comparison to KORGS Songbook...
I'm sure they know all this but choose to do nothing about improving it and thats sad. Look how long it took to see a 76key Tyros?...just sayin'

Ah, well, Donny, obviously your priorities and Yamaha's are different. I honestly can't see them doing any drastic changes to the present Vocal Harmony processor, especially on the next S-series. It would more likely arrive on the Tyros6...if at all. So you are best off using a TC Helicon or equivalent.

The current VH-2 works a treat for my uses, which include harmony for guest singers, recording as well as for my own Vocoding purposes.

I tend to use very little Vocal Harmony, and treat it much like a spice in food...I use it, but use it judiciously...and sometimes, it's not needed at all.

It really doesn't matter how long it took Yamaha to make a 76'er...the important thing is that they have, and a fine one it is, according to those who are using it.

I played a friend's Tyros5-76 and, I must say, if I was to need a 76'er, I'd get one in a heart best.

Ian

Ian, the use of the VH all depends upon the song itself - and most of the time, but not all, it should be used sparingly, as you stated. There are some songs, however, that require much more vocal harmony than others. Never The Less is one such song - it's all harmony. Cool Water, the bridge and then some is harmony. A number of country songs utilize harmony in the bridge. Consequently, if you are trying to emulate the original songs as closely as possibly, then judicious of the vocal harmony is a must. But even when used judiciously, you want the quality of the harmony to be the best possible. That said, you can get pretty good vocal harmony with the S950 and T4 - no doubt about it. But, because I rely heavily on my vocal talents, I want those harmonies to sound fantastic and real - that's why I continue to use the TC Harmony-M along with the S-950. When using this combination, I get the best of both worlds - great sounding harmonies from TC and great effects from the S-950.

I suspect that as things progress, Yamaha will soon go the TC Helicon route with their vocal processors, but this alone would not warrant an update model release. I would think there would be other software advances, and sound engine advances that would be introduced at the same time. As for editing the Audio drums, keep in mind that most players have absolutely no interest whatsoever in modifying styles or voices - they just want the keyboard to sound great OOTB! Of course, everyone has their OWN definition of sounding great OOTB as well.

Cheers,

Gary

Thanks Gary...I see your point.

I doubt if Yamaha will make a VH change on the next PSR, which I believe, is what Donny is being hopeful for...if there will be a new VH (based on Helicon or whatever) we are more likely to see it on the next Tyros as opposed to PSR.

Just my semi-educated guess, anyway.

Ian

I dunno, I think I agree with Ian here, I'm not sure how much more they can improve the next S series, as with T4 and T5 sounding extremely similar, I fear the next S series will follow a similar pattern. Who knows though, they might finally introduce touch screen? The S series got the first look with Audio Drums, touch screen might be next as a tester. Or maybe just another 25 extra Audio Styles?

I like the idea of Audio styles but as an option, not a replacement especially if they're locked down. Switching between audio and midi drums within same style would be a really cool feature and you also get to keep them. Not sure if that could ever be possible though.

Thing is, if you become attached to those Audio Styles you stand to lose them with each replacement, that is if they don't already feature in the replacement. At the moment it's not too bad as there's only a few but in years to come when Yamaha might incorporate all audio styles, unless people know a way to hack the OS you'll lose those styles you might get attached to.

If the next S series has vocal voices from the T4 then I might consider an upgrade as that's the only weak attribute of the S950 (only my own opinion though), I don't mind losing the 25 audio styles that I don't use anyway, but if the number increases people might be reluctant to upgrade if it remains locked down.

I wish I could delete ALL the audio styles they are useless to me .....that's another attribute that Korg allows you to delete all factory styles and make the KB your own totally.
besides the VH, MFD, Simple things like making indented handles in the body on both side so you can safely grab the S950 when taking it out or putting it back in the case, or on a stand would be a big help, as would a tilt display & front access USB port, on screen OTS display to show what instruments are in each of the 4 buttons in live play,...these design flaws need to be addressed & more. Put a standard 3 prong power cord without a wall wart please. Just sayin'

Ah yes I forgot to mention that you're absolutely right it should have at least 2 USB front and back as well as ridding of the silly power supply, it just makes it all look tacky and allowing something else to go wrong with it.

So then,

Touchscreen,
No Audio styles but replace with 100 new midi styles,
Better vocals & choirs,
Front and back USB,
Optional Hard Drive,
Built in power supply.

I would get one tomorrow !!!

Add "aftertouch" and keyboard close in feel to what we have in the Tyros, and I'd be right behind you in the line-up...ha ha!

Personally, Danny, I think we both lucked out getting the Tyros4...I reckon it's the best all around arranger Yamaha has ever made.

Absolutely nothing on it goes to waste, and not one feature I haven't put to good use.

I wish I could say I planned ending up with the Tyros4 entirely, but, it was just a lucky purchase...right place, right time, right amount of money left in my savings.

I'm now broke, but happy.

Ian

I agree with you on this. I tell you how I know this to be true for me. With every keyboard that I've owned in the past there was something about its successor that I really wanted that it got to the point where I had to have it! As much as I really enjoyed the T3 for the two years or so I owned it, the T4 was what I really wanted, the vocals, choirs, ambient styles etc... I don't have anywhere near the same sentiments with the T4's successor, if anything I have already forgotten about it. That's only because the T4 is still everything I ever need in a keyboard and there's nothing on the T5 that grabs me in any way like any of the other successors did. That's not because the T5 is bad, it's more of a testament of how good the T4 still is and will be for many many years.

It would have to take something very special indeed to consider moving away from the T4 and I can't see anything of that description yet. It would have to be a huge difference.

I hope the next S isn't black though.

If Yamaha saves significant Vocal Harmony improvements for Tyros, I will revert to Korg. I had hoped S950 was going to be my do it all keyboard but the VH2 was apparently an afterthought. I managed to make the S750 work with my Digitech Vocalist 4 and have been happy with that combination.

Recently bought a small Digitech Desktop unit which fits nicely on the keyboard speaker and does midi unlike my my floor pedal V4 which needs to be set to key. This unit gives me onboard harmony capability and the freedom of midi generated harmony. Unfortunately, it is still not the answer as the Yamaha has no dedicated microphone input. This means I can't add equalization to mellow out the treble sound I get when using this unit with my Yamaha.

This Desktop unit works fine with my Korg PA 80 which has a dedicated microphone input. In essence, my quest for the perfect Harmony situation while singing with my keyboards remains ongoing. Hate to add an additional piece of equipment but perhaps a small mixer inputting the harmonizer signal into the Yamaha keyboard might help.

I see Tyros and PAX/3 as home or studio use keyboards. To not put a quality vocal harmonizer into a MOTL arranger two enliven vocal performances by people like Gary, Donny, Don Mason, Tony and myself is a backward step for a quality company like Yamaha.

God Bless,
Don

Black is why I bought it

My advice to all of you that REALLY want all these things is to sit down and write a letter to Yamaha. It's that simple. They are a very responsive company, within reason. However, sitting in front of your PC and bitchin and moanin to the forum will accomplish absolutely nothing whatsoever. Me, I love my S-950 - it's a fantastic arranger keyboard, better than anything I've had in the past and it does EVERYTHING I need it to do and does it well. I packed the dancefloor of a small restaurant tonight, got lots and lots of complements on the music and at the end of the job, everyone said they'll be sure to be back the next time I'm performing there. Can't ask for more than that.

Now, I use the MFD and use it a lot. I've never had a problem with it. The USB slot in the back never really bothered me - EVER. The vocal processor has always done a great job with effects other than vocal harmony, but the S-950s vocal harmonies are more than adequate for the vast majority of the singers I know. Hey, the VH isn't a thing that gets used the often, so it's not a deal breaker.

I don't need handles or indents in the side to life the keyboard out of the case and onto the stand, or vise-versa. I just pick it up - it's not heavy and it's not very wide - what the problem?

Now, the key feel for me is irrelevant. When you're out there every day of the week, even just performing one to two hour jobs, those light keys feel great. I never want that old Underwood typewriter feel on my laptop or desktop keys, and I don't need weighted or semi-weighted keys to play good music.

I have written to Yamaha many times and made suggestions, and for the most part I get good positive responses. Like any successful company they cannot bow to every person's demands, but if you look back at the things people have asked for during the past decade, many of those requests have been met in one form or another. So, instead of sitting there bitchin and moanin, compose that letter and send it to Yamaha. Be careful what you ask for, though. And, keep in mind, none of these things are free - there will be a cost associated with those additional features.

Good Luck,

Gary

Yep, I agree entirely. And looking at the competition, nothing else comes close, especially in regards to style and sound quality (those SA/SA2 sounds are unmatched by anything else, in my opinion), so we could be in for the long haul, not a bad idea in any case.

I agree about the black cabinet...the silver looks better to me after seeing the black...it may have something to do with the S950 buttons being grayish and hard to see...it's not as bad on the Tyros4 SE (black cabinet model) because the buttons are the same as the regular Tyros4.

Personally, having the Tyros4 for over two years, I can't imagine a better pro arranger keyboard to have under my fingers. It's a long time since I made that kind of statement, Danny, so you can probably sense, that, like you, I won't make any changes for at least past the Tyros5's run, and maybe longer.

Not needing to look at anything else equipment-wise means more quality time with a superb instrument, a well known operating system, and, hopefully some new recorded tunes in the near future.

Ian

In the VERY near future, we hope ...

The S series like all arranger keyboards are designed primarily for the home player, (Press a button and everything is done for you) with the pro users hardly showing up on the radar, therefore it’s hardly surprising that a lot of features that pros want are missing.

As Gary says write to Yamaha as manufactures like feedback, but just remember the market it is aimed at.

Bill

Thank you Tony...hopefully the next few weeks go as planned. I'm in the process of shifting over to a different pension (I'll be 65 this month) so I'm making sure I dot all the "i's" and cross all the "t's" and all the proper paperwork is submitted on time.

I'm really enjoying the positive change in SZ with the increase in user uploads...it's nice to really get to know how the others are doing their music and using their arranger keyboards, and I'd like to contribute some of my own work.

We are lucky to have a common location to share our music and ideas, and it's especially interesting, because we all use different brands and models, so there's never a dull moment.

I hope we see and hear more member's contributions, especially those people we have never heard before, and who appear to have a an excellent knowledge of the instrument, but have been a little reticent in uploading for fear of unfair or impolite criticism.

We all have a musical message to share and it's our different approaches to playing that often provide a new perspective to the others.

I, for one, would like to see more of it.

Ian

if that's the case what arranger is geared toward the pro player? pros make these things work for them....there is NO arranger totl/motl today with all the so called "PRO" features, sound & styles out there!....although some come close, at least the S950 is Black ....
but "workarounds" are "KING" in this game IMO.

In reality, many instruments are geared toward home players - including pianos. If a piano were designed for someone that is constantly on the road, it would be made of a lightweight, very strong, space-age fiber so it could easily be moved from one locations to the next, yet still provide the warm sounds of a real piano. However, pianos are more a piece of beautiful furniture, exquisite woodwork, incredible craftmanship, matching bench, and weigh a ton. So, in reality, the arranger keyboard is geared more toward a pro musician than a real piano.

What makes it a pro instrument is the person playing it - not the instrument itself. The arranger's many, many features are rarely used during an actual performance. Lets face it, no one is going to edit a style or voice while performing, they might record part of their performance if they happen to think of it, but in reality, today's arrangers ARE professional instruments and played by professionals. What would make them a home instrument is when they are played by home players. At least that's the way I look at it. Same with guitars, saxes, trumpets, drums, etc...

Cheers,

Gary

Donny, it's no different than the "home" organs by Yamaha, Wersi, and to a lesser extent, Hammond. They were designed so that the home player, whether they be beginner or advanced, could make easy use of their many features.

Some choose to use full auto accompaniment while others prefer a more basic approach and use bass pedals and limited support by the instrument's style engine.

Neither method seems to make no difference in the quality of the music produced, as evidenced by the performances seen and heard on YouTube of players from both camps...both approaches have their compliment of great players as well as a balance of beginner or basic players.

The "pros", or people who play for profit (and also of advanced or basic skills) have cleverly taken advantage of the instrument's (organ/arranger) ability to sound like a band, from a jazz trio to a symphony orchestra and have used it to carve out a profitable niche in the music field often known as the "one man band".

A general rule I tend to apply, is that it's not the instrument that defines the abilities of the player, but the player who determines the quality of the music the instrument produces.

I always define a player's abilities by the terms "advanced" or "beginner" as the term "pro" can include players of both levels.

Ian

Spot on, Gary...you and I must have posted at nearly the same time.

There are advanced and basic players in the "pro player" category much the same as in the "home player" family.

Just because someone owns/plays an exclusive/expensive high end instrument doesn't mean that they are automatically an advanced player...in fact, sometimes quite the opposite is true.

Ian

isn't there one button push to open the menu On the G70 second button push to transpose?

Nope...

Fran explain exactly the procedure for transpose on g70

I agree with Gary in saying the s950 could possibly be my last arranger, but then again I know better. I think the major weakness of the VH section is the need to use the screen and buttons. Give us something simple like the G70 VH and I bet more people would use and be satisfied with the s950 Vocal Harmony section. Otherwise, my issues with the s950 are more my lack of wanting to learn the OS than anything lacking in the keyboard.

I feel that these Yamaha arrangers are by far the EASIEST OS to learn & operate no doubt compared to the rest. And believe me I have learned them all thru the years...Cass what are you having trouble with ?

I agree I think Yamaha's OS is quite easy to use. GEM were another one that I found pretty easy too especially on the WK series.