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#383466 - 02/01/14 03:38 PM Re: PSR-S950 Style Programming Demonstration [Re: Dnj]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Perhaps, if it takes a special sequencing program for the factory style writers to get all the Mega stuff and other arranger features right, Yamaha should release it for FREE to their users...

You know, if they would like them to be able to make great styles...
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#383469 - 02/01/14 03:45 PM Re: PSR-S950 Style Programming Demonstration [Re: Dnj]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Gary.... have you put any effort into any OTHER styles that you DO think has got close to a factory style?

I mean, you are somewhat cutting the legs out of your own argument about how it is all possible, if not easy, by this example. I am presuming, at some time or another, that you really HAVE done something you could use in public, or what has this all been about?

If the tools provided in the instrument, as Ian admits, CAN'T do what the factory programmers can, well, there goes the whole idea! Somewhere along the line, SOMEBODY has had to have succeeded at all this before the inclusion of the capabilities is all rather moot, don't you think?
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#383471 - 02/01/14 04:27 PM Re: PSR-S950 Style Programming Demonstration [Re: Dnj]
billyhank Offline
Member

Registered: 09/07/12
Posts: 322
The Mega voices are programed using notes normally out of playing range to add the Mega effects. Motif players have been exposed a bit to this and the technique is used sort-of by Korg when programing guitars for styles.

No doubt Yamaha has special software for doing this - why wouldn't they? ;-)

Same for programing the CASM.

Bill G


Edited by billyhank (02/01/14 04:28 PM)

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#383472 - 02/01/14 04:37 PM Re: PSR-S950 Style Programming Demonstration [Re: Dnj]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Companies like MidiSpot make third party styles for the Yamaha arrangers and they use mega voices, so either they have the same program licensed from Yamaha, or they have designed one of their own.

I asked Yamaha if I could buy the program, or at least be allowed to use it under their watchful eye, but I was refused...this was many years ago, even before mega voice technology was introduced. I was not given a reason.

The very thing that gives mega voices their incredibly expressive capabilities, is also their biggest disadvantage.

You can play them in, but it is a tedious job to get them right...corrections can be made afterwards using style dynamics, but it is still tedious. Finding and setting note limits can also be tiresome.

However, being able to use SA/SA2 voices in styles has been a very, very nice addition.

But due to the potential tediousness involved in recording the mega voices, I use Assembly, as the expensiveness is already in the part (and I can always edit to taste if I wish), and note limits and other data has already been worked out.

A style created from scratch on any of the major arrangers is never going to be as good as the factory styles...unless it's an extremely simple style or unless you have access to what the company's programmers used to make them.

Some companies have style parts that were played in using a midi instrument, like a midi guitar or an EWI ( Electronic Wind Instrument) so you would need one of them to make the parts in your scratch built style have equal quality.

I really enjoy making styles the way I do (Assembly) but it would be nice to have one of those style programs nonetheless.

Happy style making, guys!

Please post your efforts if you make one from scratch the equal of the built-in ones on your Yamaha, Roland or Korg.

Ian

PS...there's lots of info about certain aspects/features of our arrangers that Roland, Yamaha, or Korg will never release for public use. I see complaints here on the forum by several members frustrated by not having access to certain data. Most companies don't want to run the risk of their special programs being given, lost, or sold to a competitor.
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Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#383473 - 02/01/14 04:38 PM Re: PSR-S950 Style Programming Demonstration [Re: Dnj]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15556
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Actually, I've posted hundreds of them, some are just modifications, while others were from scratch. And, according to the download counter, there have been more than 19,000 downloads since 1/1/13. Prior to that date, there were more than 200,000 downloads. Of course, you would not know that because those styles will, obviously, not be beneficial to anyone other than a Yamaha user. Now, I could go to the archives, load the styles into the keyboard and record some MP3 examples and post them, but I'm not going to do that - mainly because most of the Yamaha users on this forum have already downloaded the styles I've posted in my Gig Disks and use them extensively. And, I'm not, by far, the only forum member that has successfully created some unique, usable styles. Charlie (Rattley) created many from scratch that he posted and downloading on other forums and they too have been downloaded thousands of time and are being used extensively by entertainers throughout the world.

Now, as I stated at the outset, that style I posted was a 20-minute effort, down and dirty. Would I use it - NO. But what it does is show that what everyone saw in the video can be, and is being, done!

Good Luck,

Gary cool
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PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#383483 - 02/01/14 07:09 PM Re: PSR-S950 Style Programming Demonstration [Re: Dnj]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Did any of the ones you made have full guitar parts, keys, strings, brass, all that?

I'm sorry, I honestly don't care about downloads... all that is is a measure of curiosity. How many people actually USE them on a day to day basis?

I've downloaded tens of thousands of styles, either conversions or user styles. I only found a handful of them that were remotely acceptable.
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#383488 - 02/01/14 08:02 PM Re: PSR-S950 Style Programming Demonstration [Re: Dnj]
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15556
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Yes, many of them did, which at times made them a bit too busy for me, personally, so I ended up removing some of the parts and reposting them.

A lot of people on this and other forums use many of my styles, and I get several requests every week for more. I try to provide the folks asking for them with the best of the best that would be suitable for the particular song they want to perform. Most of the time I'm successful at doing just that.

Of the 55,000 plus style files I have archived, I would venture a solid guess that at least 5,000 are in the good to excellent category.

Gary cool
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#383493 - 02/01/14 08:57 PM Re: PSR-S950 Style Programming Demonstration [Re: Dnj]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
I love the smell of downloads in the morning...smells like...Victory!

I always try to do styles with...um...style!

For those who have just tuned in...the popcorn you're eating has been buttered. Film at 11.

_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#383499 - 02/02/14 01:25 AM Re: PSR-S950 Style Programming Demonstration [Re: Dnj]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
So wouldn't an audio demo of one of the ones you made from scratch you actually like (and others do) have been a far better way to demonstrate your point?

It helps when what demos you post agrees with the point you are trying to make, LOL
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#383502 - 02/02/14 02:26 AM Re: PSR-S950 Style Programming Demonstration [Re: Dnj]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5345
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Another point of view

Option 1
Most users ask for styles for a certain song, therefore it is more sensible to find a good Midi file that matches what you want, and then break the track into loops to import into the style creator, thus giving you everything the style needs with just the selection of sounds and fine tuning being required. (You don’t need any fancy voices to make a good style)

Option 2
Do the same as professionals do, just download some of the 1000s of Midi loops available out there that are relevant to the style you want, (Make sure the loops have been designed for the instrumentation you are going to use) and then assemble a style using them. (Much like Workstation users use Arps)

It is very seldom you would ever need to create a style from scratch, (Except perhaps some simple versions that are nicely thinned out) plus while most home users need all the tracks to play along too, (They just want to sit down and play using all the easy play features they can find) professionals actually play the keyboard, so all that’s normally needed by them is Drums, Bass and a single ACC track. (Anything more usually just gets in the way)

BTW there are books available that you can teach yourself Rhythm (Style) programming, but unless you are working on something unique that no one has done before, it’s not really necessary for most players these days.

Bill
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English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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