Just wonderin why some folks are referring to a chord sequencer as a necessity.

Looking forward to the replies,

Gary

I have it on my PA 3x and have never used it once..

I have only experimented what its all about and have never touched those buttons ever again...

Nick

It's really neat if you want to use both hands to play. I only wish the Korg would let you save a few sequences for use any time you want, instead of having to record each time.

I remember having it on one of my old Roland arrangers, the E-70 I believe it was...I thought it was cool, but I don't remember using it a lot, and I certainly knew what it was designed to do, as it was a feature we specifically demoed during the demonstrations.

I know I can live without it, because I've been doing so ever since the E-70, and actually never even gave it much thought till it was brought up here on SZ.

Since I've become much more familiar with the response characteristics of Yamaha's SA/SA2 sounds, there is less need to free up left hand, but I can see how it can be important to some people, especially if you like to solo a lot over a repeating chord progression and make use the pitch bender.

Let's put it this way...if it was on the Tyros5, I wouldn't trade up my Tyros4 in order to gain that feature.

I felt the same way about the 76 keys...some people are trading up to a Tyros5 just to get 76 keys...I ain't one of them as 61 works just fine for me.

Ian

A CS would allow me to play chord structures that can not be recognized
by most arranger keyboards. I really miss being able to play rootless jazz chords.

Also a CS would allow you to play two handed parts like montunos. In addition a CS could free up your left hand for other uses besides just hammering out the same chords the whole song.

Do you ever play any of those songs that just have two chords or have a repetitive chord progression like Oye Como Va? Wouldn't be nice to maybe be able to use the pitch bend without worrying about changing chords every four beats?

A CS would also be great for a keyboardist doubles on another instrument. Play through the tune once and then pick up your horn, guitar or whatever.

Gary, I think you being the vocalist/ entertainer you are could get very good use out of the CS. Play through a tune like Fever one verse, then you free to roam the venue with the wireless mic. A bet the ladies would be inviting you to there rooms for some more entertainment

In conclution, what's there not to love about the CS?

Im sure diki will give us a few pages on why it's so great and all that use it have fun with it & power to them,...... but personally I toyed with it a few times on my units, PA3x, etc, but honestly it's just not something I would use on stage for my needs.
It's a neat gimmick that can be useful for the right player.

^This.

Many times I have found myself wishing for this functionality once Diki made me aware of it. With a CS I could play my sax or EWI and still trigger fills with my foot pedals. I can't see performing like this, but it would sure be handy for working on certain chord sequences and just for plain old foolin' around.

I have used the CS function in the Pa600 on a couple of occasions ... along with the above stated uses it comes in handy when I want to take a right hand solo and have a drink in my left hand ... NOT !!! ...
The CS for most players may not be an ABSOLUTELY, MUST HAVE feature, but it is like a lot of things in life that 'are nice to have ...
Gary, it is like hair on our head - is it an ABSOLUTELY, MUST HAVE item? ... no, but it might be nice to have ... and if there are players that ABSOLUTELY, MUST HAVE it, then they should fight for it ...

Rereading Gary's post, made me look at it from this point of view...would I use one if it was already on my arranger?

Of course...it would simply just be another tool.

More importantly...

Would I sacrifice what my present arranger does already, to have to buy another brand or model to get that particular feature?

Nope.

So it is not a "necessity". If it was, none of the above would matter.

The original question and followup statement posed by Gary were...

"Who ABSOLUTELY, MUST HAVE A chord sequencer & WHY?"

"Just wonderin why some folks are referring to a chord sequencer as a necessity."

Answer to the above...nope, I don't absolutely have to have one. It's definitely not a necessity or even a deal breaker.

Is it useful? Of course. But, like any other performance aid/feature, some will make more use of it than others.

Another thing to consider, is what is the audience going to think seeing the player using basically one hand? Yes, you are using two hands, but only one is actually playing the keyboard. And, even if you aren't playing chords like Chick Corea, at least the fingers of both hands are pressing down keys.

Of course this may not apply if you are doing two handed piano solo or part, but a big function of the Chord Sequencer's purpose is to free up the left hand for use on wheels or benders.

Again, is it useful? Sure.

Is it a necessity? No, not for me.

Ian

Okay ...here are two examples why it could be a "must have"...Any musician that performs with a solo instrument..sax, trumpet, harmonica ...any solo instrument...the CS would be indespensible...

Another...if you are a song writer or arrange songs...I used the CS on the G1000..I had a client that wrote lyrics and I use to record a chord progression to fit the lyrics and the client's melody....After recording to the CS...I would try a variety of styles and combinations to find the perfect fit/feel of the tune...I use to earn $100-$150 for each tune ..with an average time applied....less than a half hour..

Anyone with an open mind can see the benefits in many different ways...

Dang it...I feel a BK-9 coming in handy....

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

That is a great idea, Fran...see, it's just a tool...some will never use it, and some will find creative uses for it that others wouldn't even dream of.

And as far as open minds go, yours is about as open as a mind can get.

Maybe a BK-9 is in your future after all?

I know I'll feel much better about the instrument if you bought one, as I found it very strange to see you pass on an instrument, not just made by your favorite manufacturer, but that also receives excellent reviews from two SZ members, both pro players like yourself.

I think Deane's (Hammer's) BK-9 is still up for sale.

Ian

I guess there's something I'm just not seeing, or reading into this. I would think you could just record a midi file and loop it like a multi-pad and end up with the same results. Same holds true with a looping audio file.

What I also believe is that not having this feature wouldn't be a deal breaker of whether or not someone would purchase a particular arranger keyboard. Maybe I'm wrong!

Cheers,

Gary

As I said in my post Gary, "Would I sacrifice what my present arranger does already, to have to buy another brand or model to get that particular feature?

Nope.

In other words, it wouldn't be THE reason I would buy or not purchase a particular keyboard...the way the instrument sounds is the most important aspect to me...the instrument could have all kinds of extra features, including a chord sequencer, but if the sound doesn't totally please my ears, or the instrument doesn't feel good under my fingers, I'd have no trouble passing on it.

I think the aspect that people are focusing on with the chord sequencer is being able to record the chord changes in a verse or chorus while playing the tune, and then when it comes time to solo, you press "Play" and it does the progression over and over...it only records the notes in the chords you played and the space between them.

On playback you can change styles, tempo, Variations, fills and even the key. When you are done soloing, you hit the button and go back in the song at the end of the loop.

I think Fran's use is very interesting and a clever way of using it to test out song styles and feels.

Also, I could be wrong, but I don't think Fran would buy a BK-9 solely for the chord sequencer...the sound and feel are probably higher on his priority list as well.

Ian

A chord sequencer is an awesome tool to free up your left hand and either play a paino part with both hands or use both hands to controll an SA or DNC instruments solo.. Or just to have a drink with your left hand...

Its an awesome tool and its fun to use.... Its currently korg that has several of these tools build in as they aim at the pro players and their DNCs need much more controll then the Yamaha SA2 voices...

Do i need it? Well, do i need an arranger at all as i can play on top of midi and song files?

Gary, I had to have one to play my sax and my i30 has the best of any. I didn't have to record all 15 or more choruses to play some of the blues chord charts that all serious jazz players perform.

I said this before but I don't think anyone is getting it. I record the first 8 bars copy and paste them for the next 8 bars and just change the turn around for the bridge It's different then the first turn a round 99% of the time.

Then I paste the first 8 bars again after the bridge and I have one complete song. Then I can copy the whole tune and paste it for as many choruses as I need. After a few tunes of course with many chords plus passing chords I could still do a tune in under an hour. I could do a three chord tune in 5 minutes. Ha ha!

On a gig, all I need is my keyboard speakers mic etc. Sing and play a few tunes. Switch the sequencer on (No Laptop or any other gear necessary) stand, pick up my sax and jam with the sequence.

After your question, I finally understand why no one here could understand what I was looking for or had any clue of what I needed when I was shopping a keyboard that could do everything. The i30.

With the keyboards of that time, I would have had to record all 5 or 6 choruses of "All The Things You Are" without any mistakes. There's not a player here on the forum that could do that unless Hank Jones, McCoy Tyner or maybe a Bill Evans is hiding here. Ha ha.

None of the arrangers of that time could copy and paste like the i30. I could even go back where I might need to fix a wrong chord and just record that one chord in the middle of the tune effortlessly.

Y'all still don't get it, right? Maybe Diki, I said maybe Diki gets it and maybe he doesn't get it and that's OK Diki. You really need to be a solo instrumentalist who desperately wants to be a OMB to have to do it for yourself to get it. Even a hi-tech expert may not be able to grasp the concept. It does not, or I am not implying that y'all are stupid. The point of this is it is comparable to supply and demand. If you want to, the need is there and you do this, you will understand.

Read Frans' post 50 times and it will help you to understand, maybe.
Don't forget I only played the sax but knew chord theory. I had to learn to play the chords with my left hand, learn the keyboard and the lyrics and figure out this all out from scratch.

Here a short list of things you can ONLY do with a CS in arranger mode...

Play another instrument.
Play another keyboard.
Solo using the bender like you would if you DIDN'T have to play the chords.
Solo and use the synth knobs or sliders to mess with the sound.
Play the head with simple chords, then play full piano and get REALLY 'outside' without screwing up the chord recognition.
Set it to vamp, and go out into the crowd.
Scratch your arse, while STILL playing 'Peaches en Regalia'!

I've always said, generally it is a feature for the better player. If all you can do right now is simple chords and a simple melody, it doesn't make much sense (but it COULD help you develop a lot more skills...). But if you have a very strong LH (pretty much wasted inputting the same rote chords over and over again), or well developed soloing skills using the pitch and mod wheels, or want to try more outside stuff that the chord recognition isn't happy dealing with, it can open some pretty big doors.

Don't forget, the CS can be anything from a two chord vamp, to the entire verse and chorus of a song, to the whole darn thing (especially if your arranger allows the CS to be saved, and loaded)!

I am actually having more fun playing in arranger mode than I have had for ten years. Now I have my CS back, I am not quite as tempted to make an SMF of the arranger doing the backing for a song, so I can play with TWO hands! I can solo as strongly in arranger mode as I can over an SMF...

It isn't a MUST HAVE... But you sure miss it when you don't have it, if you have the skills to use it.