I really must say, no matter if the initial question of this thread is off the wall or not - it is not my idea of a forum administrator to insult other members as stupid and to say that a statement like 'Get lost' is just the answer of choice!

Although Chas and I don't always see eye to eye on the occasional topic, after reading his responses, I honestly don't see anything in them that would be termed "stupid". Actually, I thought they were worded quite well.

As for the question presented by the OP being out of place, this very question was posed to our Musician's Union Local #355 back in the early 70's or thereabouts (it may have been earlier)...up until then, a singer did not have to join the Musicians Union unless he or she played a musical instrument when performing. Now, that could have been as simple as a Tambourine, Egg Shakers, or a Cabasa, but if you played something other than just doing the vocal, you had to join.

Of course, that rule was changed, and singers, who played or not, were (and still are) required to join, probably to even things out among band members, but no doubt seen as another way for the Union to make more money.

A rather strange topic, but, I have seen much stranger ones on SZ.

Ian

If you play an instrument, compose, or conduct, then it is obvious that you know music! Therefore you're a musician.

If you sing and play an instrument you're a musician and you are a vocalist too, and you're possibly also an entertainer if you play and sing in front of an audience.

To me if you only know 3 chords and can only play the same 10 songs over and over all your life, I figure you must be slow or very simple. Perhaps "STUPID?" One of the three.

If you only sing and don't know anything about music or do not play any kind of instrument, you're a vocalist. PEOPLE WHO AREN'T INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO GRASP THIS FACT ARE STUPID. PERIOD. WHAT ELSE COULD THEY BE, MAYBE A YANKEE OR A CAJUN?

Just because you possess a voice and it is considered an instrument does not make you a musician. WHY? Because if that were so, does that mean if you possess a trombone in your home and can't play a note, ARE YOU A TROMBONIST, STUPID?

If Nigel the owner moderator can call someone who knows as much about "MUSIC" as Chas "STUPID" I can say whatever the hell I want to say. Put that in your pipe and smoke it Deb! Ha ha, whomever you are. LOL!

I wonder if I'll be banned again? I said hell. I could get into to trouble for that expression, but I know that I'm safe with stupid. I'm positive Nigel is not a hypocrite even if he does play the guitar!!!

DonM wrote this for me Nigel. Just kidding. It was Gary, Dave and Donny that teamed up to put this together. Everyone knows that I'm not intelligent enough to compose this by myself. I'm just a Cajun boy carrying the message! Please do not kill the messenger.

Man if this doesn't stir the pot I don't know what will, and I'm going to quit trying. I'll leave it up to DIKI and TONY HUGHES to tend to that.

Just wondering.. Those that sing in the shower.. Are they considered vocalists also??

Imo humbly so, a trained vocalists (a singer in the case deb might be refering to) requires in depth knowledge of music, articulation and timing and extensive vocal training such to refining how to master ones instrument. And such would have rightly obtain their title as a musician.

For what it is worth I assumed (as I read it) that Nigel was saying the argument was stupid rather than that Chas himself was stupid. There is a difference.

As for the the topic in question Tony Mads already posted a definition. I am not sure of his particular source but Merriam Webster dictionary definitely agrees with him....

mu·si·cian
noun \myü-ˈzi-shən\

: a person who writes, sings, or plays music

Wikipedia states.....

Musicians can specialize in any musical style, and some musicians play in a variety of different styles. Examples of a musician's possible skills include conducting, singing, composing, arranging, and the orchestration of music.

It seems a silly thing to argue about but if we must then the official definitions for the most part seem to concur that a singer is a musician. None of the definitions I could find argue that a singer is not a musician.

Personally it would never occur to me that a singer was not a musician but if that does occur to you then unfortunately you seem to be in an uninformed minority. (that was my nice way of saying that you are wrong )

Hugz'n'stuff

Heh, I didn't think I'd join this discussion, but you're on the right track, Kytrinh. My aunt was a soprano with the The Royal Opera House Covent Garden. To be so, means lifelong, ongoing training, with annual auditions to see if you're on top of the task. An operatically trained voice goes places I, and probably most others on here, can only imagine. Plus you need to be able to sightread classical scores. Now, there should be little doubt as to whether or not the voice is an instrument and that the possessor of such an instrument is very much a musician.

Guess this is very close to the right answer?

If they possess all of the knowledge and training you mention, they, obviously like Frank Sinatra and Nat Cole, may play piano or some other instrument and would definitely be a musician. Geez, I can see some here will never get it. It reminds me of the idiots that don't agree with the professionals who figure things out and say that there is really only 11 maybe 12 actual minutes in a NFL football game. Counting from snapped ball to play whistled dead.

Boo, Pavarotti didn't play an instrument, but he definitely was among the greatest vocalist to ever grace a stage.

Luciano Pavarotti

1. British English: musician Pronunciation for musician A musician is a person who plays a musical instrument as their job or hobby.He was a brilliant musician.mjuːˈzɪʃən NOUN

2. mu·si·cian
myo͞oˈziSHən/Submit
noun a person who plays a musical instrument, esp. as a profession, or is musically talented.
"your father was a fine musician"
synonyms: player, performer, instrumentalist, accompanist, soloist, virtuoso, maestro;

3.musician - definition of musician by the Free Online Dictionary
www.thefreedictionary.com/musician‎
One who composes, conducts, or performs music, especially instrumental music. [Middle English musicien, from Old French, from Latin m sica, music; see music.] ...

Only the Merriam dictionary mentions the term (singer) and that's because they are as stupid as some people I know. The Merriam people must work for the Obama administration or some other stupid liberal asinine politically correct outfit.

Some of you guys might make good fighters because of your hard heads and stupidity. Maybe you should all get jobs with Merriam's dictionary.