Keep in mind ...I have not played either model..

My observation is from viewing demos and owning previous modela (Tyros3 and BK5)..

Big plusses for both...76 keys..

Bigggg minuses for both..no touch screen..

VIA demos...Pianos , acoustic and electric..the BK9 wins

Organs..BK9 wins


Guitars...Tyros5 wins..

Why I would consider buying a BK9 before a Tyros5?
It seems like editing is the same as the Tyros3 on the Tyros5..and editing on the BK9 ..the same as the BK5...BK9 wins easily.

Chords automatically show while SMF play on the BK9..unsurpassed by any competition...BK9 wins..

Pricing...no keyboard is worth more than $3,000 to me..I will take an $1,800 BK9 first..


When I play the top of the line keyboards I will know what to do..

Fran I am selling my BK 9 if you are interested give me a call. Ron

You make a good point, Fran...we usually appreciate most the sounds, styles, editing methods, and OS we have grown accustomed to...in your case Roland does the job.

Still, I was rather surprised you didn't jump for a BK-9, as the few reviews of it here on SZ seemed to be very positive.

Also, I am surprised it didn't appear to sell all that well, but maybe it's a slow starter like the G-70, which now appears to have more value to some players than it was when new.

I like Yamaha's OS a lot, because, although I like tweaking and editing, I don't want to spend too much time at it and want to be playing and recording instead. It is an easy, intuitive system made even easier by familiarity, as are most OS.

I'll feel a little better about the BK-9's worth when I hear that you have one, as I know you are very fussy with your arrangers, especially Roland, and you don't want gear that you don't make good use of.

Ian

Coming from the BK5..I know first hand...I want a touch screen...The edit parameters are in the BK9..I just don't want to deal with the non touch screen approach...Had enough with the BK5..

Same reason I have no interest in the Tyros5..

Ian, you've used the Yamaha is so long that of course it is easy and intuitive for you.
However there is a rather steep learning curve. New users are always stumped by both the basics of the Registration system and of its many parameters. For example you can spend an hour setting up a registration and then lose it because you didn't save it twice. First the reg and then the bank as well. Then there are freeze settings in two separate locations. Then there are two, or three on some models, places to edit and save vocal parameters, etc.
My point is, all the systems are easy after you use them for a few years. To me, the easiest to learn and get around is Roland.
Korg is probably the toughest, but ultimately the most complete. The earlier Ketrons were nearly impossible. Technics was great.
Just random thoughts and rambles!
DonM

I see what you are saying, Don.

When I worked the music stores as a store employee, I had to learn the OS of every arranger brand we carried, at that time it was Roland and Yamaha. The store down the street from us sold Technics.

The last Roland arranger I worked on in the store (besides the G-70 I babysitted for a friend a few years later, was the G-800, and I remember at the time it was about the same as Yamaha regarding difficulty, and it was a riot going from one brand to the other due to the differences.

That's why I wouldn't use two arrangers, unless they are both of the same brand.

Ian

Absolutely right Don ... I am ashamed to say it, but I haven't played my kn6000 in months ... BUT, I am certain that when I go back to it, it will be like 'riding a bicycle' because the OS is sooooo easy ...

The Technics OS was probably the simplest there was - not much to it. You could pretty much learn the entire OS in a couple nights, just sitting at the keyboard with the instruction manual.

The Roland and Yamaha were about equal, technically. Both had their idiosyncrasies, but generally speaking, the most difficult registration system to learn was Yamaha. That took me close to a week to get it right and become second nature. I thought Korg's OS was about as easy as the Technics, with a few exceptions. Of course, I'm sure they've all changed since my days with those antiquated keyboards.

Cheers,

Gary

Gary ... not sure what you meant by 'not much to it', but while I found the technics OS easy to learn, there was/is a LOT you can do with it ...



I can't agree with this statement ... maybe 'cause I'm older, and I KNOW I was fully used to the technics, but I didn't find the KORG OS easy at all ... setting panel memories (registrations) for songs on the kn6000 is a lot easier than on the Pa600 ...
Speaking of, I have to get back to setting up styles/STS, etc. for all my Christmas tunes ... see you guys later ...

There was a huge change in os between G800 and G70.
G70 through E80 was a piece of cake!
DonM

AMEN!!!!!

I remember teaching a blind friend the G800...in detail..He amazed me with his ability to operate the G800..

The G-70 wasn't so bad, I had it down pretty quickly, but I don't think it is any easier than Yamaha's.

Fran, I taught several blind people on our more recent, and a few older, Yamaha arranger models....that is also why there was a protest from many visually impaired users when it was suggested the next Tyros go to a touchscreen.

I can't say that it was the reason Tyros5 remained with a regular screen, but apparently it is far easier to use for those with sight problems than a touch screen.

I believe it was discussed briefly here as well.

Ian

Tony, What I was referring to was how easy the Technics OS was to learn. It did a lot, just like the other OS systems, but the menus were very easy to navigate.

Gary

This is a Yamaha Forum for those who prefer Tyros and other models of the Yamaha line. Lloyd

[quote=Fran Carango]Coming from the BK5..I know first hand...I want a touch screen...The edit parameters are in the BK9..I just don't want to deal with the non touch screen approach...Had enough with the BK5..
Same reason I have no interest in the Tyros5..
--------------------------------------------------------------------
I think roland purposely left out the touch screen to keep the price down. Even with that I think the BK9 is expensive. Must be a lot of cost to make up for their R&D.
I also believe they did give you the capability of having a touch screen by designing the BK9 to work with the IPAD. Want a touch screen with your BK9 get an IPAD, and the beauty is the IPAD is good for so many other things so its not just more money spent for your keyboard.
I will be getting the new Ipad Air soon and I think that of all the things I will do with it on the music end it will be for DJing, and music reading, not as a live tool for editing during a gig. (BTW a sidebar note on Djing these days. Just lost a gig because the girl in charge wanted me to have the capability to download any song anyone requested during the night. I hate it when the guests start running the show so I'm glad it didn't work out. But another reason for an IPAD or Laptop )
When I play I'm too busy playing and singing to start making adjustments. I want everything set before I take the unit out. Lots of tweaking before hand but its worth it.
All in all the think the BK9 is a great, get one, LOL. The weight, sounds, most styles, flexibility of use, and I don't even mind the semi weighted keyboard too much. Firm enough for a good piano feel yet still good for doing organ stuff, a good compromise.

Bill, I use my laptop for DJing..I have a mobile hotspot too...Just connect to You tube...and you have any request you need.
Your ipad will do the same..

I don't actually do any DJing, but I have googled quite a few songs for lyrics and chords and faked them. I have also grabbed a few from Youtube and played them by request when I take a break.
I've had a small laptop on the stand for many years. It also serves as a backup in case the keyboard should ever fail.
DonM

Fran

Thats one of the main reasons for getting the IPAD. Just a question, why do I need a mobile hotspot device, can't the IPad connect to the Internet by itself?? My wifes Iphone does and I was going to tell the girl booking the party that but as I said I really didn't want to be a total jukebox all night. Especially when the drinks start flowing and everyone has their own idea of what I should be doing.

I've never had any interest in DJ'ing, I'm a player.

Yes, it could be needed at certain functions, but I don't book those functions.

I also think being a good DJ is a skill...I have seen only a few very good ones, and all kinds of very bad ones.

I'll stick to playing my keyboard.

Ian

Fran, most of the roadblocks to easy BK-9 use disappear with the iPad apps.

Have you looked at this? http://www.roland.com/apps/bk9performanceeditor/

This is close to the G70's touch screen functionality (in fact, quite a bit onwards, in certain areas) on something MUCH larger and easier to see than the G70 touch screen.

Yes, I think they made a mistake moving to the dual LCD screen, but given that this line was designed from the BOTL upwards, rather than the TOTL downwards, not that surprising. However, with the iPad apps, much of the original ease of use seems to have been addressed.

And live, unless you are one of those 'Free Panel' relics from the 80's, there is MORE than enough control for playing live simply from all the sliders (10 of them), buttons, Assignable buttons (4 of them), footswitch, expression controller inputs, D-Beam and the FC-7 to be able to run the thing quite easily even without an iPad on the gig (or allow you to use your iPad for PDF display or other uses).

There are live slider controls for two MFX parameters and two CC's for voice manipulation per Performance (something you couldn't do on the G70), a big improvement.

I think that the G70's touch screen OS was about the best anyone has yet to come up with, but, in fairness, for $1500 LESS (and 25lbs less!) it is not reasonable to expect parity with the G70. Thank goodness you can address it with the iPad, though.

Look, for solo and duo use (I think full live band, I am still happy with the G70, but more familiarity with the iPad apps may change that) I think the BK-9 is a huge step forward. The Chord Sequencer alone puts it into another category if you are familiar with how much that can allow you to do that you can't while stuck having to play the changes, the audio loop capability starts to put it into full WS ability and sound, and the Hammond is to die for!

I am surprised at your resistance to jumping in. Admittedly, I didn't go through having a BK-5 or -3 first (although I do have a -7m), but I did try them when a friend bought them (and subsequently sold them to get the -9), and I can assure you, from key feel to overall sound, the -9 is MUCH better.

Time to get off the fence, Fran, and give it a good try...

I've never had any interest in DJ'ing, I'm a player.

Yes, it could be needed at certain functions, but I don't book those functions.

I also think being a good DJ is a skill...I have seen only a few very good ones, and all kinds of very bad ones.

I'll stick to playing my keyboard.

Ian

Ian

I'm a player too and pretty good I think. In a perfect world where I could pick and choose my gigs I wouldn't DJ either. I find it boring. However when they request the Cha Cha Slide or Good Girl what would you do, start searching for the right Style and sing it ?
Its the business nowadays and there are very few real players working anymore. Its all MP3 backrounds with some live (usually mot so good singing ) over it. Most parties people just want a DJ to dance to. Even the NH are getting DJ's.
I didn't make the rules, I'm just trying to play the game.

[quote=Bill Lewis] However when they request the Good Girl what would you do, start searching for the right Style and sing it ?
/quote]

First off the popular song on the charts today by Robin Thicke is " Blurred Lines" not "Good Girls" which are lyrics in this tune..lol..
The rest I agree with Bill to a point, give the people what they want, "mix it up big time" Live play & Dj and make lots of $$$$ or sit home and make squat! .......no body cares they wanna dance and hear whats on the radio at the moment at most of these gigs. Then many times turn it all around and go ballroom all night, or Latin, or old school big band too...
be very flexible. I'm glad I can do one, or both, & sing for a living,...carry on,.. Would you rather have one thing to eat on a Buffet.........or 20 different choices?

ya dig?

I gotcha Bill...but, I don't intend to DJ.

I agree, it is boring as hell, but I suppose if you like it, and hone the skills to a nice edge,, it probably could be lucrative and fun.

I'll leave it to those far more qualified than me...I honestly don't have the heart for it.

I get hired as a player, and they are the only jobs I do. I'm not being inflexible...I just know what I really want to do, and what I am good at, that's all. I'm a decent player, and I also know my limitations.

There's lots of work to be had as a player, whether I'm doing restaurant music, making recordings with another singer/musician, playing on stage, either solo, or backing up a singer/guitarist.

But, I see your point, and it's well understood.

Ian

Bill, I use Verizon..The mobile hot spot is a better option for me..($20 month compared to $10 month for each tablet)...and if you don't have a wifi connection the mobile works better..and any laptop can use it too..

Donnie

OK OK Blurred Lines but they always request Good Girls LOL.
The other nights job was ALL keyboard and that's rare. we're off topic now but the BK9 did a great job. I did have my DJ rig but only used it for the breaks and things went well. Sorry that's not the norm. I wish I were near you where there's lots of senior gigs or where Ian is for live gigs. One place here in Cape May uses piano music and they're swamped with players. No other restaurant, and Cape May is supposedly known for having some good ones, offers music.