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#373178 - 10/19/13 01:02 PM And finally, Korg Pa900 vs Roland BK-9
adimatis Offline
Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 971
Loc: Oradea, RO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKVSEQCLCLo

Now, this I find much more closer (even though very different in sound) than the comparisson with S950.
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#373185 - 10/19/13 05:40 PM Re: And finally, Korg Pa900 vs Roland BK-9 [Re: adimatis]
montunoman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 1377
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Thanks for posting those adimatis. This two KBs have been under my radar for awhile now. Seems like it would be almost impossible to find both those boards here in the US to do a side by side comparison...

Personally, I didn't have much of a preference for the Roland or the Korg RH sounds. The styles had much more punch on the Korg. Maybe some EQing would help the Roland? Also the demonstrators RH was so loud, the styles got buried in the mix-especially on the Roland.
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#373237 - 10/21/13 09:17 AM Re: And finally, Korg Pa900 vs Roland BK-9 [Re: adimatis]
hammer Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/27/08
Posts: 1317
Loc: Texas
Paul,
It takes a tremendous amount of time and effort to get the BK-9 to sound good. It seems to me the global master settings are only the beginning on the BK-9 and a lot of the individual styles need to nearly be re-constructed. I also notice the introductions are often way to loud as well as some of the endings. I haven't figured out how to change this yet.

The PA900 was much easier to get gig ready and way less tweaking was needed.

Deane

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#373245 - 10/21/13 11:06 AM Re: And finally, Korg Pa900 vs Roland BK-9 [Re: adimatis]
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Personally, I disagree, but then again, I am pretty used to Roland's, and also have a different style of playing. I would say, this comparison is extremely flawed. Just the volume alone is utterly different between the two arrangers, then the balance between RH and style is also not comparable.

Both are easily fixed... but that doesn't seem to have occurred to the poster. And playing Hammond sounds without a volume pedal? Who does that? Other than a tyro, of course!

And yes, the built-in compressors and EQ's of each keyboard are utterly different. Far better to turn them BOTH off. Compare apples to apples, or don't bother at all, IMHO. Remember, the PA900 has speakers, and the factory default EQ is probably set up to optimize that, the BK-9 has none, and the factory processing is probably set up for something else.

And, bottom line, I have never heard ANY arranger sound even remotely perfect (to me) OOTB. I actually EXPECT to do considerable work to tweak it to my tastes. I honestly think it is very optimistic to expect that from anything, but if you HAVE found something you think perfect OOTB, best to stick with it..! Or at the very least, factor in the work you are going to HAVE to do to set it up for yourself.

If there's one thing that may be a factor in all this, it may be that the BK-9 has no speakers. So whoever were creating the styles had no common reference for EQ and clarity of monitoring. I think that there were many different people involved in creating the styles, and it is possible that they all used different monitoring during creation. So yes, I agree that there is some work to do to balance certain styles. But, in fairness, this is something I have heard to a lesser degree on other arrangers, too (at least for my ears).

I usually turn off the Compressor and dial back the EQ of the Mastering section in any keyboard I attach to my system at home. In fairness, I have a superb pair of nearfield monitors, that are pretty flat already, so a lot of the curve applied to most arrangers' factory settings to compensate for poor built-in speakers or bad home sound systems isn't really needed.

But you never know what the guy who created the style was listening to, so I always expect some work to do. However, that is what I feel makes my sound, MY sound! The thought that everyone else who has a G70 or a BK-9 sounds identical to me gives me the willies!

Overall, Deane, I'd dial back the compressor on the BK-9, and back off the EQ a bit, if you have decent monitors... But then you have some work to do to rebalance the styles if the compression helped tame a few sounds. I'd be glad to help if you asked, over at R-A.com, Deane.

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#373256 - 10/21/13 02:11 PM Re: And finally, Korg Pa900 vs Roland BK-9 [Re: adimatis]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 11217
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
All good points for sure. I had no problem getting any of the Rolands to sound great, though no experience on BK9. Yet.
DonM
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#373260 - 10/21/13 03:12 PM Re: And finally, Korg Pa900 vs Roland BK-9 [Re: adimatis]
zuki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/20/02
Posts: 3384
Loc: Michigan USA
Roland sounded pitiful IMO
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#373263 - 10/21/13 04:54 PM Re: And finally, Korg Pa900 vs Roland BK-9 [Re: zuki]
billyhank Online   content
Member

Registered: 09/07/12
Posts: 275
Sure - and - of course everyone has the same set of ears too.

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#373296 - 10/22/13 09:56 AM Re: And finally, Korg Pa900 vs Roland BK-9 [Re: adimatis]
adimatis Offline
Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 971
Loc: Oradea, RO
Stay assure, two people will always hear something different out of the same demo.
I like both, they are just different. Roland, to me, sounds a little bit more close to a real band/play. The fills are less complex, more natural transition. Korg sound is clearer, styles more complex, but is not always a good thing (unless you mute one or two parts.) And the fill glitch is still there, unfortunately.
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#373344 - 10/23/13 09:28 AM Re: And finally, Korg Pa900 vs Roland BK-9 [Re: adimatis]
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
I still feel that, if you want to know what a BK-9 can sound like, played in style mode by competent players, you can do no better than the videos available here. They are all live takes of arranger playing, no overdubs or SMF's. http://www.youtube.com/user/LaPietradelParagone/videos

No offense, but flawed 'side by side' comparisons by well meaning, but technically inexperienced demonstrators do more harm than good. As little as a db of volume difference between two clips can color your perception of a sound, and it's obvious this guy didn't even take the time to balance the LH/RH sounds, let alone have them at the same perceived volume overall.

But the demos up at the Italian site basically show you what the arranger sounds like. I have not noticed any radical difference between these and my BK-9 OOTB. Obviously, the player balanced the RH sounds (like nearly all arrangers, they come OOTB with RH sounds too loud, especially if you are a pro, with pro touch on the keys).

If you are looking to base your opinion on the BK-9 on a flawed comparison by someone with insufficient skills to set them up so they start from the same place, don't believe you are getting the straight skinny.

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#373357 - 10/23/13 11:52 AM Re: And finally, Korg Pa900 vs Roland BK-9 [Re: adimatis]
adimatis Offline
Member

Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 971
Loc: Oradea, RO
You might have red the answer of the poster to this volume issue.

He said:

"Thank you for your comment. We are completely aware of all this and everything was calibrated correctly for this video on the product. It boils down to the simple fact that some keyboards just have a sound that is more dynamic than others. Those spikier waveforms stop the overall sound from being quite as loud as other products. This is not necessarily a bad thing as it allows for greater expression as a player."
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