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#371957 - 09/13/13 03:15 PM
Re: Forget about Michael Buble !
[Re: john smies]
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Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14194
Loc: NW Florida
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Paul McCartney, John Lennon, even George Harrison had hits WAY past the dissolution of the Beatles (until some of their lives were tragically cut short). Wings alone probably outsold and out-influenced anything Cliffy ever did post-Shadows. The Stones continue to tour attracting numbers that Cliffy can only dream about. Not to mention influencing a generation (or two!) of rock bands.
Sorry, but I am not posting in ignorance of what Cliffy has done since the sixties. In fact, I remember covering all those 70's 80's tunes at the time they came out, and no-one here is misrepresenting facts or being blatantly ignorant. But take a look at the first post you put up here, and try to imagine why you feel the need to compare him to a kid that has been big only a handful of years. And performs in an utterly different style.
But start to compare Cliffy to his contemporaries, and look at his legacy in comparison, it's easy to see that Cliffy is no giant, despite still being popular. So maybe that's why you choose Bublé as a foil to compare him to? Against his REAL contemporaries, he is nothing more than a decent pop singer. He never wrote a hit, his backing band had huge hits without him, and despite being a really nice guy, and a good singer, has never really influenced pop.
I think you don't understand my position here. I don't dislike Cliffy in the slightest, always enjoyed his hits, loved the Shadows, and appreciate his position as a philanthropist and popularity to people of his generation and region.
But somehow, blasting the taste of Americans because they never took him into their hearts seems such a cheap shot, I felt it needed replying to. We took the Beatles and the Stones, along with even Jerry and the Pacemakers and many others in during the British Invasion. That Cliffy couldn't manage this is more a reflection on him, his music and his management than it is the taste of Americans. In fact, we gave him his shot... he appeared on the Ed Sullivan show, just like the Beatles. But he was mostly marketed at the time in England as the British Elvis Presley... and America already had the real thing! Don't tell me you compare him to Elvis, now! LOL
He got his shot, and America decided they didn't need ANOTHER Elvis. But they sure needed something fresh... the Beatles. If that's an indictment of American taste, I sure don't see it! If anything, it's a ringing endorsement. Unlike so many still swooning over him, America decided it could tell the difference between the real thing and an imitation. Cliffy is lucky Europe couldn't...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!
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#371959 - 09/13/13 03:42 PM
Re: Forget about Michael Buble !
[Re: Diki]
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Member
Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 666
Loc: City of Angels in the golden s...
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Paul McCartney, John Lennon, even George Harrison had hits WAY past the dissolution of the Beatles (until some of their lives were tragically cut short). Wings alone probably outsold and out-influenced anything Cliffy ever did post-Shadows. The Stones continue to tour attracting numbers that Cliffy can only dream about. Not to mention influencing a generation (or two!) of rock bands.
Sorry, but I am not posting in ignorance of what Cliffy has done since the sixties. In fact, I remember covering all those 70's 80's tunes at the time they came out, and no-one here is misrepresenting facts or being blatantly ignorant. But take a look at the first post you put up here, and try to imagine why you feel the need to compare him to a kid that has been big only a handful of years. And performs in an utterly different style.
But start to compare Cliffy to his contemporaries, and look at his legacy in comparison, it's easy to see that Cliffy is no giant, despite still being popular. So maybe that's why you Uchoose Bublé as a foil to compare him to? Against his REAL contemporaries, he is nothing more than a decent pop singer. He never wrote a hit, his backing band had huge hits without him, and despite being a really nice guy, and a good singer, has never really influenced pop.
I think you don't understand my position here. I don't dislike Cliffy in the slightest, always enjoyed his hits, loved the Shadows, and appreciate his position as a philanthropist and popularity to people of his generation and region.
But somehow, blasting the taste of Americans because they never took him into their hearts seems such a cheap shot, I felt it needed replying to. We took the Beatles and the Stones, along with even Jerry and the Pacemakers and many others in during the British Invasion. That Cliffy couldn't manage this is more a reflection on him, his music and his management than it is the taste of Americans. In fact, we gave him his shot... he appeared on the Ed Sullivan show, just like the Beatles. But he was mostly marketed at the time in England as the British Elvis Presley... and America already had the real thing! Don't tell me you compare him to Elvis, now! LOL
He got his shot, and America decided they didn't need ANOTHER Elvis. But they sure needed something fresh... the Beatles. If that's an indictment of American taste, I sure don't see it! If anything, it's a ringing endorsement. Unlike so many still swooning over him, America decided it could tell the difference between the real thing and an imitation. Cliffy is lucky Europe couldn't... Diki has some good points and he is a Brit (like Cliff , may be naturalized now), John. I believe Cliff played too safe in his mid and late career and that's why where he is now.Still a legend. It's like comparing say Scorpions (Cliff) to Led zeppelin (Sinatra). Most of the world consume US/UK music (generally speaking) as western music (not talking classic music here) and most influencial names /bands are the same of respective genres.(miles/Armstrong /Elvis /purple/sabbath/zeppelin/Sinatra , etc)
Edited by jamman (09/13/13 03:49 PM)
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#371967 - 09/13/13 11:35 PM
Re: Forget about Michael Buble !
[Re: john smies]
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Senior Member
Registered: 10/23/06
Posts: 1661
Loc: USA
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For some reason , apparently due to the lack of musical taste of Americans  he only had three major hits in the USA. But he is a legend both in Europe as well as in the far east, Japan, Australia , South Africa, you name it............. Hi John.....not sure if anyone mentioned he also won the Eurovision Song Contest singing the song: :Congratulations." Which gives me a platform for my opinion on "the lack of musical taste of Americans" I lived in your neck of the woods for many years (Great Britain) and, personally speaking, I just loved the wholesomeness (and the happiness) of British pop songs. Every so often I would check out the charts in America and found very few of the Top 10's in England listed on the American charts. My opinion has always been just what you said..."no musical taste" over here. American songs are great works of art compared to the simplicity of European music, and, don't get me wrong, I like songs written here the "American way".....always have, always will. But the "plain Jane" European songs with the simple melody lines that you can hear and sing along to are what hits you in the gut and makes you keep coming back for more. I always viewed Cliff Richard as a "plain Jane" vanilla-flavored, no frills vocalist. That was the greatest compliment I could give him. He, and many other British vocalists, just made you feel, shall I say, wholesome.....and happy inside. Americans will never understand that if they haven't lived there and experienced it first hand. I mean....look at the British pubs where they have sing-a-long every night and attended by every age group. That's the first thing I missed when I came back here.....the levity and fun and good times enjoyed by everyone in those places. That doesn't happen here. Folks here really don't know how to enjoy themselves with music. Anyway, I'm going way off course and really not saying clearly what I wanted to say "clearly!" Just trying to say Cliff Richard would never hit it off in America.....his music is too "happy!" And......thanks for mentioning him. His name brought back so many great memories of the great British songs I'll never get to play again! Mark
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#371970 - 09/14/13 12:20 AM
Re: Forget about Michael Buble !
[Re: Mark79100]
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Senior Member
Registered: 05/05/00
Posts: 1384
Loc: koudekerke, Holland.
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Thank you Mark, you have enlightened my point of view.
A few remarks if I may:
1
Though I was an English teacher for 15 years in the seventies I was and still am DUTCH to the core. ( although at times I wish I was not....)
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I only started this thread because I wondered what the hell Michael Buble ( or any other singer) and whether we like him or not , had to do with the arranger keyboard forum. Mind, I have nothing against him, as a matter of fact I have made myself a nice compilation CD of the stuff that I like. ( as I have done with many other artists. This JS collection now holds well over 60 CDs and is an ideal way of listening to your favourite artist and music
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I am not going to follow up any further this debate, merely with Diki. It is not a point of being right or wrong but a matter of taste basically. And, admittedly some facts......
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When I was alluding to the Americans lacking in musical taste that was most obviously written in gest......( though....haha)
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One final point dear Diki has apparently overlooked when he wrote " Wings alone probably outsold and out-influenced anything Cliffy ever did post-Shadows " : again for the record: CR sold more records worldwide than ANY other artist dead or alive.
Anyway time to get back to playing the arranger keyboards and hopefully not too much speculation about the new Yamaha until it is there. And as to Diki, we are still eagerly and almost impatiently awaiting some of his efforts on the arranger keyboard to share with all and sundry.
Enjoy your weekend,
regards,
John
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It sure made me laugh.
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