118 views and no comments. I'm mystified!!!!!! This isn't my bag. I find styles that I can live with to do Come Fly With Me, Fly Me To The Moon, I Get A Kick Out Of You, I've Got You Under MY Skin etc with the raised and flated 5ths, 9ths, 11ths, 13ths and all the diminished augmented thingies and everything in between, so I don't get this hi tech manuvering styles, drum kits and such. What's with this midi to style stuff? Is it something, or nothing? Can I use it? Or is it useless?

Who are the techies here. I don't even know.
HeLLLLLLLLLPPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!

what version of styleworks Dan, universal or the specific Ketron version?

I don't know !
It's a video from Stuart in the vArranger forum who told about this styleworks feature, to convert a midifile to a style in one click.

We know the software Donny, I was mroe interested in if the guy was using the instrument specific version of the universal version..

Styleworks U, is notoriously BAD at converting anything!!

TO convert a midi the midi first must be prepared with markers and chordal structure centred around cmaj7/cmin7 ..even then SW is pretty hopeless.

I note at the vA forums that this same guy is having big issues with the style correctly playing parts when loaded into vA..again not surprising as it is SW...

But I believe the instrument specific versions (particularly the newer releases) are much better in operation.

D

There is no magic bullet. Real music has passing notes, leading basslines, transitional chords and much much more that stops it from being linear in nature. There is no software anywhere that is capable of analyzing all this, removing the transitional stuff, and making a style directly from MIDI, unless the tune is so simple it has none.

So, you end up doing as much editing as if you had done it all yourself. And add to that, most arrangers have ways of taking MIDI chunks and assembling them into styles already.

Sadly, it is boondoggle. Sold to gullible buyers who don't realize how difficult what it says it can do actually is.

Thank you Diki.

I need to give EMC a thumbs up...It isn't a miracle worker....and on certain brands comes up short..not because of the software but the style design of the brand...Yamaha is one of the brands and Ketron has problems too...

What EMC Styleworks does...it gets you to the point you can edit without being an expert in style design..

I have used Styleworks for 15 years...in fact at one time I was the distributor in the USA..

I get great results converting Korg to Roland with a single mod change..the bass..an easy change to do..

Ketron to Roland..I usually have to mute a guitar track...

Yamaha to Roland...the xg selections are terrible..so you need to select new instruments and set all levels...Yamaha seems to be the most inconsistant..

Technics to Roland are also okay...

In fact after conversions...to Roland....Korg and Technics are some of my favorite...There are a few Ketron to Roland styles I use...and none of the Yamaha...not worth my time..I don't really care for Yamaha styles to start....

There are so many great styles from Roland, Korg and Technics...it is not worth the trouble to work with Yamaha and Ketron..

As for SMF to style conversion..again Styleworks gives you a starting point that allows you to fine tune the style..

Is there a NEW version Emc style works UNiversal that works with the newer arranger keyboards..Tyros4, PA3x, Pa600, Audya, Bk5, etc,...? or update to the older version?

Doesn't Korg have a kind of Styleworks "lite" included with their line up? I seem to remember something about that, but never looked into it.

Two different threads going on at the same time...

Converting one style format into another, and converting a MIDI file into a style.

Not the same thing... unless maybe the MIDI file was the output of a style from an arranger, to be converted into a different arranger.

The only thing I use SW for is to extract the style to a mid file so I can work on the notes and patch assignments, then re-import back to SW to save as the new style, for the same as the original..

I have found NO conversion with SW to be so good that they did not need further editing on the destination keyboard.

But at the first task written above it is quite good.

Dan, if you keep improving your product, you're gonna make me try one. Quit it!

DonM

Now that Don would be a great endorsement....common Don you know you need a new Toy!! and with Dan's great support you never know Don M & Arranger = perfect together!

Has vArranger got a full sound translation chart to work with a BK-7m yet? Being able to play Yamaha or Ketron styles into the BK-7m might be a practical thing as long as the sounds are mapped over well. No GM or GS rubbish, but a careful use of the FULL BK soundset to get the closest approximation possible.

This is the main problem I have with most translation software.. and I have tried Styleworks. While they do a very rudimentary job of mapping sounds, it's always easy to pick MUCH better alternatives yourself. Why this isn't done for you so that the translator works better I have no idea. The goal, if the software is to become popular in the arranger market (let's face it, few of us are real MIDI and style creation experts, we want 'plug and play'!) is the BEST possible translation or playback, OUT OF THE BOX.

Ideally, MIDI velocities of drum sounds need to be scaled and adjusted, because no two manufacturer's drum kits respond EXACTLY the same, EQ's per Part need to be applied so that one arranger's fuller basses don't turn into wimpy basses on another arranger, things like that. I've got many, many style translations, and the one universal thing is, not ONE of them couldn't be radically improved with some editing. And, 9/10 times, I have to do the exact same editing to every style from 'arranger a' to play on 'arranger b'. Be nice if the software did it for you!

How's work coming along on the Chord Sequencer, BTW, Dan? Have you had a chance to get your hands on a G1000 to see how it is done well?

Actually Diki, Styleworks is not that far off being useful..

If only they would add a proper "editing sequencer" tool, ie one that will allow end users to insert and edit ANY midi data, not just the programs preset data for a specific model.

And allow the use of patch mapping data : Sonar .ins files ; Cubase .script files, Logic multi instrument files etc etc etc

Then I think it could be a genuine tool rather than a novelty...

Dennis

Definitely user definable maps, including velocity offsets and scaling, and EQ sys-ex etc. is really needed. Nothing worse than having a dozen (or more!) styles from another manufacturer, and having to go into the kits after the conversion to do the EXACT same thing to them all!

Software like this is much more likely to be used (and sell well) if stuff like this is taken care of for you...

DonM, You're welcome in the vArranger world

Diki, no, the Yamaha and Ketron styles will not sound perfect directly on your BK. You need to tweek a little bit, but it's on screen, and it's easy.

I will maybe add a place to edit the RULES of the translations for people like you. So once you create a rule, it will be followed for all the styles.

The Chord sequencer will be released soon. I will add 2 buttons as on the G1000... REC and PLAY

wow!! is Diki getting a Varranger now?

Dan how did you work around the lack of a retrigger parameter? For a long time Yamaha and Korg have had a style parameter that determines what happens to sustained notes (pads, strings, etc.) when a chord is released and a new chord specified during a measure. Roland lacks this parameter, and I've found it to be a serious barrier when translating Yamaha styles to Roland using StyleWorks and other techniques.

There were THREE buttons for the Chord Sequencer on the G1000.

REC, PLAY, STOP.

Diki, I just read again the G1000's manual, and there is only 2 buttons for the chords sequencer.
One called REC/STOP and one called PLAY/STOP
I will do the same.

TedS, About the retriggering on Roland styles, I have found a solution, but I can't tell much about it...

I am now working on the BK-7m styles. They are playing quite good with vArranger and any sound module. I really like them !

Good news on the BK7 styles Dan...imo they are the best group of factory styles Roland has released.

Dennis

Wow! Yes, I am completely wrong...! It's been quite a few years!

The thing that confused me was the Play/Stop and the Rec/Stop. BOTH buttons had a dual function!

The Roland's also suffered from one fatal flaw, which I hope won't make it to your GUI... Roland put the buttons for the CS WAY up at the top left of the arranger, well away from the keyboard, making it quite a stretch to get to them while playing busily. Wherever you place the buttons on screen for this (are you making this touch screen friendly?), they need to be something you can get to easily and not accidentally hit anything else while playing. No doubt you'll be able to set up MIDI commands for it, so those with a dedicated controller can choose their own setup for it, though.

Might I also suggest that, while the CS is in record, the button for 'Rec' flashes red, and when it is playing, the button for 'Play' flashes green (in time with the tempo!). Having visual confirmation that those functions are working properly will be VERY handy...

And, while we are on the BK...

While BK styles are playing well on OTHER sound sources, of course I am more interested in how well OTHER styles are working on the BK..! Particularly Yamaha's guitar parts and Korg's too.

Diki, vA is VERY touch screen friendly everything is available by touch only, no mouse or keyboard...However, there is always something!!

On anything less than around a 12" screen touch gets a bit "tight" and a bit hit and miss as the size of the on screen tabs an buttons gets rather small.

It is already on the wishlist/to do list for Dan, and we think at some stage, he MAY look at some way to allow larger screen tabs for some of the essentials, like variation jumps, midi markers, fills endings etc...

It is not high on the priority list for him afaik, as he is about to release a brand new "live" setlist tool...and then an in-built editor....but I think he has taken it under consideration

Dennis

Hi Guys:

In all this conversation plus the video... nobody has said "diddly" about cost. I know all you performers are into the big bucks and cost is not a factor... but songwriters are starving to death. (Well, nearly! LOL) This looks like it might be a great tool but I need to know real-time cost, whether or not it will work with a Yamaha PSR-S910 and how or where it can be obtained using cold hard cash.

Thanks for all the help and levity you guys provide. I lurk alot 'cause my time is so dang limited. Doing my best to reach 1000 songs before I croak.

Dave Rice

http://www.varranger.com/

vArranger software - 1 licencevArranger software -
1 licence €349.00
Item price: €349.00
Quantity: 1

Total €349.00 EUR

+ Lifetime upgrades (I have already had 4 that I can think of) and one of the hardest working and most approachable software designers I have ever come across, if not THE most!!

Quite a few of the improvements have come directly from the userbase. Dan goes out of his way to analyse a request to see if it can be done, and then if possible does his utmost to fit it in. Sometimes it can take a while, but it DOES get done.

On top of all that, his support for new users is superb, and every one gets treated equally.

Tell me where you find that with anything else?

Sometimes money does not really make the final decision....

Dennis

Diki, I have not decoded the Korg format yet, but I will do it later. Only, Ketron, Yamaha, and Roland.

Yamaha styles will play quite good on the BK-7M.
I will record some demos of Tyros styles on my BK-5 for you and TedS.

Thank you Dennis for your good words about me and vArranger.

The best ideas in vArranger are coming from the users !
I take the time to understand the need and to create the best software that I can !

The price is quite high for a software, but I did the choice to have less users and be able to give time to directly help everyone + offer free lifetime updates. I know, it's unusual in the business world

By the way, The best is still to come !

Riceeroni9, if you're writing tunes like "Round Midnight," Body And Soul," "All The Things You Are," etc. good luck trying to do 2 or 3 in your life time. Lol!!! If you're doing R&R or R&B, you should do a minimum of a couple of hundred a month eh? Ha ha!

Hi Boo:

No... I'm more interested in creating an equivalent to "Stardust" or "Laura"... LOL! Good to hear from you again. I hope you are surviving those sometimes nasty winters up there in John Denver Land. (A far cry from "N'awlins.")

Your point is well made and I agree, today's music won't hold a candle to the old standards we grew up with.

All the best,

Dave Rice

Thanks, Donnie, Dennis and Dan:

Gotta go get my conversion tables out... LOL! I'm guessing this is going to be on the cusp of affordability for me. I just spent my children's inheritance on the 910 Yammie. If only I possessed the wealth and talent of Don Mason.

It really does look like an interesting product. Do you know of any youtube videos showing the different aspects of this product from receipt, initial setup, it's use during the creative process and then the final conversion into what will become MP3 format songs? I'll do a lookup asap, but if you know of any really informative videos, it might save me some time filtering through the wheat from the chaff... LOL!

Thanks,

Dave Rice

If you want to look at the screen layout, there is some videos from a french user explaining some things...

http://www.varranger.com/vforum/index.php/topic,878.0.html

Thanks, Fran and Dan:

The video was impressive. Unfortunately, the artist and the cameraman did not provide me with the essentials I need for my decision making process. The ultimate result was not displayed but I get the "drift." Thanks, Fran. Much appreciated.

Dan: The link does not work but I'll write it down and plug in each letter and slash, etc. manually in an attempt to see what you generously provided.

B-T-W... I never use MIDI but might be interested in converting MIDI files to styles if I ever run across something that might jazz up a composition's intro, middle break and outro. I'm most interested to know if varranger will "handshake" with my 910 Yamaha Arranger and a PC or Laptop via USB... or will MIDI cabling be required no matter what?

Thanks for all your trouble.

Dave Rice

(A few of my songs can be heard at the SongRamp - unfortunately, I don't have a link to my page there.) I abandoned the ShowCase site for lack of real music biz folks participation.

Dave this all depends on your sound engine - in this case the Yammie?

Does it have a USB b port? That is the one that looks like a fat "D" , and do Yammie provide USB midi drivers? If the answer is yes to both, then no problems using the USB as the midi interface

Connect your USB cable from the yammie to the PC, select the Yamaha USB Midi as the output in vA, select the Yamaha mode and off you go

Dan has done a pretty good job in getting Yamaha styles to play correctly. AFAIK, you can store all your Yammie styles onto the vA usb thumb drive...and load and play!

There are a few Yammie PSR710 styles already in the styles folder...but you would want to add your total collection I would assume?

I say afaik, as I use mostly Roland styles with vA.

Dennis

here the link again.

http://www.varranger.com/vforum/index.php/topic,878.0.html

If you have the 910, why do you need vArranger?
I don't say that there is no need, but I want to be sure that you will have a use of it.

For the PSR-S910, you only have to plug a USB cable to the PC.
It will be used as the master controller and the sound module.

Hi Dan:

Thanks for reposting the link. I looked at it by typing it in manually. It was impressive but failed to show me what I wanted to really see in order to make an intelligent determination.

Your question is a good one. With the 910, I probably don't need vArranger... but I want to know enough to make an informed decision. Naturally, I'd rather have the 950 or a T-4 but it's a question of affordability. Songwriter's are crawling out of the woodwork and the competition is fierce, so I need a "leg up" and Arrangers offer that option.

Miden clarified the ability to use vArranger with the 910. My thinking is that many styles not available for the 910 might be created or modified for use on the 910 via vArranger. It appears that the cost would not justify the acquisition but I wish you well and will continue to watch the many changes and new technology available to folks in the music creating biz.

Regards,

Dave Rice

As a songwriter IMO would only needs a piano or guitar that would be sufficient to write songs on a basic level scratchpad,....and let all the rest of the magic happen in the studio with singers and some good musicians.

And where does one get the $'s to pay for such talent and studio time

Most stuff "recorded at home" wont be commercially ready, if and when someone signs you to a deal for that song money will be no object if it's worthy to make them and yourself a nice profit. Many hit Songs have been written on toilet paper FIRST before they make their possible journey to Hits-ville afterwards in a studio before a Master cut..

Hmmm the old toilet paper anecdote (you perhaps would be surprised at how untrue that hoary chestnut is )....

I know of LOTS of "home recordings" that in my view are BETTER than current studio recordings...

There are many MANY excellent examples of self-produced music online...anyone with a modicum of "ear" talent, can produce quality music on home systems....

Hi Donnie & Miden:

I record every song I write... jot it down in the PC for a Lyric and chord sheet... then record it on whatever I have available... usually a Yammie Keyboard. No, I'll never lay claim to having a desire to be a rockstar. Many songwriters are only into songwriting... me included. I only need something to show a budding artist, a producer or another publisher what the song sounds like when sung by an old geezer. Heck, if someone cuts the song, they're gonna add their own personal touch and playing/singing style to the thing. That's show biz. I'm only in it for the money. (LOL!)

There must be 50,000 songwriters in the U.S. alone! Lots of competition and most of the big stars are creating their own material. Oh well, it beats digging ditches.

All the best,

Dave Rice