Ian ....thank you for your unknowing concerns as usual......
but this is one time I will have no comment here on this forum.
sorry I wont take the bait.

No bait, my friend...just an astute observation.

It is just heart warming to see the kindness and concern of fellow SZ'ers.

Ian

Now this, I agree with

I would only add ease of use and the ability to select any entry (1-9,999) via a simple MIDI CC string, that can be embedded into any midi file, or even attached to a PDF chart using Unrealbook on iPad so that the Songbook setup gets loaded the instant the chart is selected!

I did do a Youtube vid demonstrating this some time back....

These are things NOT found anywhere else with the ease of use of the Korg System. ROland do have a similar way but it is restricted to the 128 listings in a, is it a UPS???

I cannot remember the actual acronym, but yeah, all you can immediately access is 128 settings, then you have to load another set of 128 if you want to find another song...no problem if all you do is preset fixed playlists.

The advantage of the Korg system is you can dynamically change anything at any time to suit whatever is happening as you have immediate access to anyone of the 9,999 songbook listings...

For example on my system using Unrealbook (in which you can annotate charts) I simply mark the Korg Songbook number on the chart page, so that if I select the chart I can then press the Songbook button twice which brings up a number pad and I enter the number. The setup is then selected and loads in under a second!!!

This is the backup should I not have a preset midi attached to the chart, or if I forget the midi out kit for the iPad...

So yes Bill I agree with your summation, but I think it goes a bit deeper than JUST more comprehensive

Dennis

As to not seeing arrangers around in "real" bands:

You'll see arrangers in use in many professional settings such as Cruise ships, dance bands and high energy singles who entertain in settings where a larger band just wont fit, or would be too loud. If a B3 player can be called "legit" because he's using bass pedals, then a good, solid arranger can be used to fill in whats missing in any other situation. It's all about changing with the times. I am still playing my butt off with both hand, both feet and my voice ... the arranger does it's thing, and I do mine ... same as when I was in bands.

Touring acts use tracks, sequences, automation, and anything else to make the show. Please don't suggest that the business is just for manual labor. Automation makes it possible for us to communicate on this site - embrace the technology.

Dennis, yes the G70 has 144 locations for user program selections, but beyond that is unlimited (depending on size of external memory) storage of user programs on the external memory card...this is easily searched and selected in the same manner as styles and smf,s...

Well, the Oracle of Synthzone has spoken. Let's see now, I respond to a statement made by Diki directed (not maliciously) to me, and that's a 'Hijack'. YOU, on the other hand, respond to a post (not directed at you) in a similar manner, but equally not on topic, and it's NOT a Hijack. How does that work? Does it just depend on WHO the poster is? Also, if you bothered to actually READ my post (in it's entirety), what I said was that I, ME, CHAS, had never seen an arranger used in certain professional venues or known any professional musicians that owned or used one professionally. And finally, please stop trying to tell other people what their opinion should be or what they should embrace. I tend to listen to people who have demonstrated their wisdom by their career successes. The major Touring acts you alluded to are able to 'embrace the technology' because they FIRST made it the old fashioned way, with above-average TALENT. Hey, have a good day and knock 'em dead at the Crab Shack.

chas

Yes Fran but you STILL have to load up the UPS set of 128 if you want a song that might be in set 4, or 13, or 25 whatever!!!

And it is ONLY these entries (after loading the entire set) that can be selected via MIDI...and then only one of 128 can be selected via midi not 144!! The CC numbering only goes to 128

Even though 144 can be loaded onto the G70, only 128 are availabel for MIDI selection.

And then you need to re-load the original set you were using for the pre-programmed songlist (playlist) after you made that audience request selection.

Even if you COULD load 144, I mean 144 as against 9,999??? And ALL instantly available? You really cannot be serious is asserting the Roland system is the equal, surely

Stop trying to defend your keyboard!!! I never attacked it in the first place I only stated I think the Korg Songbook is the best I have used.

At least I HAVE used the Roland system. I am not sure you have used for yourself the Korg SB in a any serious way.

Dennis, I was looking for opinion why the Korg Songbook is superior...sorry I still don't see it..I am not defending the G70...it is every thing I need ...

Why is midi selection important with a top of the line arranger?
Why is it important to need more than 144 locations?
Via the keyboard as the controller..the user program selection from storage card is easy to use....
I probably use 3 or 4 user programs, for specialtie performances....My default user is really all I need to use...preferring to make my selections live during performance..since this is easy to do with Roland OS..

So in review, I am neither knocking the Korg or defending the Roland.....I am just trying to understand your views...

Okay fair enough Fran, TBH I thought it was clear enough, but to explain a bit more simply:

I am not talking about selecting MIDIS per se, I am talking about a special midi file created to load a Songbook Entry - be it a style, an MP3 or a song based midi file - these are a one bar "oneshot" midi that uses NRPN CC's plus the Data Entry CC, which when transmitted over a nominated "control" channle on the PA series, then automatically loads the Songbook entry with all resources - Microphone EQ and Harmoniser settings as well.

Look why don't you check this You Tube clip - which I think explains it even better ....

Having a data base of 9,999 songs to choose from makes doing requests a snap!
It also means that ....let's say I have prepared a playlist at home for the 3rd set of the night - I have my 20-25 songs all ready to go - BUT then I am playing at the gig and I find what I had prepared is not working, with the instant nature of the KSB and the fact there are son many entries instantly available I can simply change to dynamically (you do understand what I mean by dynamically? Not being rude, just asking....) selecting songs, then if I find the audience is getting more responsive, I can slip straight back to the prepared playlist...

You know as well as I do it is harder to get folks ON the dance floor than to keep them there

I know the Roland is easy to use but the number restriction (128) was always an issue...Why Roland could not have extended the function past a basic single bank MIDI set is beyond me!!! And I will also say that had Roland HAD the access to more entries (without the need to keep loading a whole UPS to get one or two songs) I daresay I would not have gone back over to Korg with the PA2xPro..

Does that help?

Dennis

tony always the voice of reason





Fran the g70 was 5 years ago, I have very little recollection of it......I have to admit I did not try the Roland thoroughly to give an honest opinion.