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#340976 - 02/27/12 10:17 AM Re: Possible Live Styler Workstation on the way [Re: Frank L. Rosenthal]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 6735
Originally Posted By: Frank L. Rosenthal
Bachus, I am currently using Live-Styler v14 with all the wavetables and samples you can buy from Norbert. In addition, I have OMB.

Long ago (possibly in the 1990s) I started with style players such as Music Companion (Roland styles), RMCA, Evolution Studio Pro (I am not sure I got the name right) Jammer Live and a few others (can't remember). From here I moved into Live - Styler for live playing and sometimes used OMB.

I will acquire VArranger today.

Thank you

Frank


I hope we'll get an update of your first experiences with V-arranger. Afterall you are the most experience soft-arranger user. Just wondering how V-arranger compares to live-styler. As we all can see Dan is very proactive overhere, and continously improving his products.
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Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

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#340977 - 02/27/12 10:41 AM Re: Possible Live Styler Workstation on the way [Re: Frank L. Rosenthal]
Frank L. Rosenthal Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/18/00
Posts: 1008
Looks like vArranger will be shipped via mail or some other means. I was hoping I would be able to download it after payment. I sent Dan an email concerning this subject.

Oh, Oh I spoke to soon, Dan will send me the download instruction....so things will happen as it should.

Thanks Dan


Frank


Edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (02/27/12 10:45 AM)

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#340982 - 02/27/12 12:05 PM Re: Possible Live Styler Workstation on the way [Re: Frank L. Rosenthal]
NavidSyed Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 10
Loc: Orlando, Florida
can I ask why it is so expensive? 349 Euro for a software arranger?

I am sure it is great, but can't you just buy a Korg Micro or similar and trigger all the VST's in the computer using any VST Host?

what am I missing here? what are advantages of this Varranger? I did bought Live Styler and One Man band a while ago never really liked the interface so not using them... blush

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#340984 - 02/27/12 12:34 PM Re: Possible Live Styler Workstation on the way [Re: NavidSyed]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4888
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Originally Posted By: NavidSyed
can I ask why it is so expensive? 349 Euro for a software arranger?

I am sure it is great, but can't you just buy a Korg Micro or similar and trigger all the VST's in the computer using any VST Host?

what am I missing here? what are advantages of this Varranger? I did bought Live Styler and One Man band a while ago never really liked the interface so not using them... blush


Hi

A Software arranger can be updated over time with new features, a hardware arranger has limited update potential due to the inbuilt hardware, and thus you have to buy a complete new keyboard to keep up to date with the current state of play in the market. (This means that while initially cheap, the fact that you have to buy a new board every 3 years or so, makes it a very expensive option in the long run)

BTW: All arrangers these days are software arrangers (Tyros 4, PA3x etc.) however they will only run on their own hardware thus updates are limited.

Price wise the T4 is approx. 3599 whereas Varranger is 349, so its not expensive at all (Remember VArranger can do most of what the T4, PA3x can do, as well as much more)

Bill
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English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#340985 - 02/27/12 12:48 PM Re: Possible Live Styler Workstation on the way [Re: NavidSyed]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 6735
Originally Posted By: NavidSyed
can I ask why it is so expensive? 349 Euro for a software arranger?

I am sure it is great, but can't you just buy a Korg Micro or similar and trigger all the VST's in the computer using any VST Host?

what am I missing here? what are advantages of this Varranger? I did bought Live Styler and One Man band a while ago never really liked the interface so not using them... blush


Developing software costs loads of times, combined with the very small market for software arrangers this should be enough to explain the price

Why do people allways think that software should be cheep? Sure iphone apps are cheep, but then you can sell millions of copies.

Tough you have a point, V-arranger is more then twice the price of live-styler, and i still haven't figured out what V-arranger can offer me that Live-styler cant. (except importing midi styles with markers)
_________________________
Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

http://keyszone.boards.net

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#340987 - 02/27/12 12:52 PM Re: Possible Live Styler Workstation on the way [Re: abacus]
Frank L. Rosenthal Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/18/00
Posts: 1008
I agree with Bill concerning his comments on the benefits of a software based arranger system. In addition you have the flexibility to use any wavetable or instrument samples you wish all the way up to the highest quality available today. Again these can be updated as improvements are implemented. Same holds true for other supporting software, e.g., vocal harmonizers, effects, etc. In other words any VST can be tied together with virtual midi cables and VST Hosts, e.g., forte, etc.

Plus you can use the Midi Controller of your choice (88 note, 76 note, 61 note, weighted or not and the features for controlling your software).

Plus I just simply like the overall elegant philosophy of a totally software based solution.

To make all this sound and operate well you need to pay attention to the computer and sound card your going to use. Plus it takes time to set it all up and make it work reliably.


Edited by Frank L. Rosenthal (02/27/12 01:04 PM)

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#340989 - 02/27/12 01:03 PM Re: Possible Live Styler Workstation on the way [Re: Bachus]
NavidSyed Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/01/12
Posts: 10
Loc: Orlando, Florida
Originally Posted By: Bachus
Why do people allways think that software should be cheep? Sure iphone apps are cheep, but then you can sell millions of copies.


I think I was not clear in my message I never said that software should be cheap, I own more software than I actually use,

including, NI Komplete, Reason, Sonar, Live, Nexus, Omnisphere etc..my question is what is the benefit of having such expensive software when you can do this with any reasonable arranger and any VST host?

I just bought Korg Micro Arranger and I am triggering my VST in real time in Sonar I can use a cheaper VST host if needed,

I hope my question makes sense what is the benefit of a software arranger? if it just playback other companies arranger styles any conversion program can do that I just loaded Yamaha styles in my Micro?

Originally Posted By: Bachus
Tough you have a point, V-arranger is more then twice the price of live-styler, and i still haven't figured out what V-arranger can offer me that Live-styler cant. (except importing midi styles with markers)


now that is what I am saying?

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#340998 - 02/27/12 03:55 PM Re: Possible Live Styler Workstation on the way [Re: abacus]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4888
Loc: English Riviera, UK
As I said before a manufacture comes out with a new arranger that plays instruments more realistically than a previous arranger, (Not a new voice but a new way of playing it) no matter what VST you have it will not be able to replicate it because they are not arrangers, so you have to buy a new board that can transmit this new feature to the VST.

With a software arranger, this feature can be added easily without having to buy a new arranger.

LIvestyler and Varranger

Microsoft office costs money, open office is free; both do the same job so why pay for Microsoft? The answer is that you can put things together in Microsoft Office 3 times faster than in Open Office, which in a busy environment will save a lot of time and money, thus easily paying for itself.

If you just use office software occasionally than Open Office will be fine so no need to pay more.

Varranger is newer and has a really slick OS (Microsoft Office) whereas Livestyler has a messy and more convoluted OS (Open Office) which is fine if you have the time, if you dont than Varranger will be better suited to you as there is less work involved.

Style conversion software is OK but there is still a lot of work involved to get the style right. The software arranger can be programed to replicate any hardware arranger, thus adjustments are reduced.

As to why you would use other manufactures styles, answer this question, why is conversion software so popular? The answer is that not one manufacture provides all the styles that a consumer wants.

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#341000 - 02/27/12 04:09 PM Re: Possible Live Styler Workstation on the way [Re: abacus]
FransN Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 1235
Loc: Netherlands
I have Varranger and although I like it it doesnt come close to my PA3X. I use it mainly as a practice tool. I still prefer the hardware arranger.

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#341001 - 02/27/12 04:36 PM Re: Possible Live Styler Workstation on the way [Re: abacus]
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3353
Loc: The World
Originally Posted By: abacus

Varranger is newer and has a really slick OS (Microsoft Office) whereas Livestyler has a messy and more convoluted OS (Open Office) which is fine if you have the time, if you dont than Varranger will be better suited to you as there is less work involved.




Sorry m8, I have to disagree!! Live Styler is every bit as slick as vArranger...maybe you should check ver 14?? Plus vArranger has NO software instrument support,coming, yes, but who knows when exactly and how it will really work, so the argument that it is easy to change sounds (at this stage anyway) does not really hold for vArranger as it is 100% dependent on a hardware device!!

vArranger has NO inbuilt effects systems. It relies on the hardware module still,

vArranger has NO VST or VSTi support, rather you have to have load up an external VST host and then port to that and then back...

All of these things Live Styler has, in addition, with the Plus version, you can automatically play Yamaha, Ketron Roland styles, just load and play... I know this is coming to vArranger but we do not know when..

There are just so many MORE features(just as there are on vArranger-but imho don't justify a 200% price difference) available on Live Styler it would take too long to post here, so the question remains, why what many consider an INFERIOR (but still good) program is DOUBLE the price of the superior one...... which is the suggestion this poster (navidsyad) is making.


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