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#337542 - 01/26/12 04:28 PM Scott Micro Arranger
bruno123 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4912
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
Scott, My Korg Micro Arranger will arrive in 7 to 10 days; excited.

John C.

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#337543 - 01/26/12 04:40 PM Re: Scott Micro Arranger [Re: bruno123]
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Hi John C.
Congratulations on the imminent arrival of your micro Arranger. smile
I can assure you that in spite of DNJ & Fran suddenly dumping theirs,
I continue to enjoy mine immensely, and even utilizing it on gigs.
The 9 lb micro-Arranger sounds terrific and a lot of FUN to so easily grab & take anywhere and perform.
No other arranger comes close in this regard. rocker

Scott cool

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#337556 - 01/26/12 05:52 PM Re: Scott Micro Arranger [Re: bruno123]
cassp Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/21/03
Posts: 3748
Loc: Motown
John - I, too am keeping my Micro. For $499 you can't get an arranger that sounds like that. Even most older, better arrangers still cost more. Good luck with your purchase.
_________________________
Riding on the Avenue of Time
cassp50@gmail.com

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#337558 - 01/26/12 05:58 PM Re: Scott Micro Arranger [Re: bruno123]
Tom Cavanaugh Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/06/99
Posts: 2133
Loc: Muskegon, MI
Scott and Cass,

Are the Korg styles longer than Yamaha?

Tom
_________________________
Thanks,

Tom

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#337561 - 01/26/12 06:23 PM Re: Scott Micro Arranger [Re: bruno123]
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...

hi Tom. I honestly don't know.
I bet Korg & Yamaha style programming expert Manuel Dorantes knows.
I speak to him regularly and will pass this question on to him,
and maybe he will reply here. smile

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#337563 - 01/26/12 07:12 PM Re: Scott Micro Arranger [Re: Scottyee]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Guys, I have changed my mind..I too, am keeping the Micro Arranger...I rather have the keyboard..than the money smile

I spent more time with it today, sequencing and editing..more for fun than trying to accomplish anything smile..
I have organized SMF's, Jukebox, and personalized sounds and styles on it...and as Scott mentioned, we could gig with it....Originally I intended to use it for one hour shows, and also as a rehearsal instrument...It is ideal to keep on hand when DJ jobs come up...with quick access in a small footprint..It sounds good.. not great, but keeping in mind, the purpose ...I ....need it.. rocker


Now let me get on Ebay and cancel the auction.. wink
_________________________
www.francarango.com



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#337565 - 01/26/12 07:59 PM Re: Scott Micro Arranger [Re: Fran Carango]
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Originally Posted By: Fran Carango
Guys, I have changed my mind..I too, am keeping the Micro Arranger. Now let me get on Ebay and cancel the auction.


Fran, realizing both you and Donny Pesce bought the KMA, and only a week later, both put it up for sale on eBay,
and then quickly turned right around again to cancel your KMA eBay sale:

Question 1: Does eBay charge a "cancellation fee" when you post an item for sale or auction, and then cancel the item offer?

Question 2: will Donny now follow in your footsteps and "for the 2nd time in a week" cancel his KMA eBay sale "yet again"? grin

the saga contines . . .
or as Scarlet O'Hara said in GWW: "I'll think about that later, tomorrow's another day"

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#337568 - 01/26/12 08:12 PM Re: Scott Micro Arranger [Re: Scottyee]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Question #1...No, you only pay for the insertion fee..

Question #2...How would anyone know what Donny will do... grin


The Korg Micro is priced so cheap,,it is hard to not lose money selling on EBAY...about 13 percent..It is just like a restocking fee...and I hate to lose money on anything smile

I would rather depreciate it, while using it.. grin


Scott , sometime, I run a test on Ebay to see the market ..first hand, via hits and watchers..Also from questions asked....I try not to abuse this option, and most of the time, I eventually sell the item on Ebay...


Edited by Fran Carango (01/26/12 08:16 PM)
_________________________
www.francarango.com



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#337574 - 01/26/12 08:22 PM Re: Scott Micro Arranger [Re: bruno123]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703


Edited by Dnj (01/26/12 08:22 PM)

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#337575 - 01/26/12 08:25 PM Re: Scott Micro Arranger [Re: Scottyee]
Scott Langholff Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/02
Posts: 3163
Loc: Pensacola, Florida, USA
Scott

If you will look at the bottom of Donnys posts today, you will notice that where you can list the instruments you play, the MicroArranger is no longer listed. hmmmmmmm. hahahaha

Check tomorrow for further developments.

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#337577 - 01/26/12 08:29 PM Re: Scott Micro Arranger [Re: Scottyee]
mdorantes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/25/00
Posts: 1210
Loc: Queretaro, Mexico
Hello Everyone...

Congrats on your MicroArranger.

To answer the question on how long are the styles, well, depends on how the style designer made it, keep in mind that any manufacturer does not use only one style designer, they use many, and also depends on the style genre of the music that is made for.

You can not impose a particular style measures-length, "like one size fits all" that wont work. Keep in mind, that could tamper with creativity not to mention to be true to the style to be emulated.

In some big band/Jazz styles, you can make a very long intros....but that is why most Mid size-newer arrangers have at least 3 Intros, from either count in or short, medium and Long.....that the ends are mirror the same way.

A benefit to have longer "loops" in a style, is to break the monotony, remember the first 1980's Yamaha PSR10 and PSR 20, or some early Casios? only one measure loop.....boring.

I hope this answer the question.
_________________________
mdorantes

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#337580 - 01/26/12 08:42 PM Re: Scott Micro Arranger [Re: Fran Carango]
Scottyee Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10427
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, CA, US...
Originally Posted By: Fran Carango
No, you only pay for the insertion fee.

Fran,
I thought this was a "G rated" forum ! grin
Seriously, how much does eBay charge for that? juggle

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#337585 - 01/26/12 09:25 PM Re: Scott Micro Arranger [Re: Scottyee]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: Scottyee
Originally Posted By: Fran Carango
No, you only pay for the insertion fee.

Fran,
I thought this was a "G rated" forum ! grin
Seriously, how much does eBay charge for that? juggle


INSERTION FEES

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#337592 - 01/26/12 11:46 PM Re: Scott Micro Arranger [Re: Dnj]
john smies Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/05/00
Posts: 1384
Loc: koudekerke, Holland.


In addition to what Miguel says here I would like to say this:
In as far as I have any experience with Yamaha, you know I have
loads with Korg, one of the most outstanding features of the Korgs
from the outset ( i3, etc.) was the fact that their styles run over at least 2 but often three to 6 bars, whereas Yamaha has often stuck to 1 or 2 at the most, hence sounding much more repetitive. Over the last three months I have owned the PSR3000 next to the PA800 and this has only confirmed my views. However I cannot speak for the Tyros 4, I am sure Ian or others will fill up this void.

regards,
John Smies

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#337604 - 01/27/12 01:58 AM Re: Scott Micro Arranger [Re: john smies]
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi John
I think you may find most psr styles are at least 2 to 4 bar variations or at least on my psr 1500.


Originally Posted By: john smies


In addition to what Miguel says here I would like to say this:
In as far as I have any experience with Yamaha, you know I have
loads with Korg, one of the most outstanding features of the Korgs
from the outset ( i3, etc.) was the fact that their styles run over at least 2 but often three to 6 bars, whereas Yamaha has often stuck to 1 or 2 at the most, hence sounding much more repetitive. Over the last three months I have owned the PSR3000 next to the PA800 and this has only confirmed my views. However I cannot speak for the Tyros 4, I am sure Ian or others will fill up this void.

regards,
John Smies
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#337606 - 01/27/12 02:09 AM Re: Scott Micro Arranger [Re: rikkisbears]
Saswick Offline
Member

Registered: 01/05/01
Posts: 875
Loc: Garstang, Preston, Lancashire,...
Hi Guys

The variations/intros/endings in the Korg styles can be up to 32 bars/measures long. This applys to the PA series but the Micro as far as I can see only allows 16 bars/measure.

Hope this helps

Regards

Col

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#337608 - 01/27/12 02:38 AM Re: Scott Micro Arranger [Re: bruno123]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
To John, and those curious about Yamaha styles...

Most of the styles on Tyros4 use 4 bar variations, with very few using 2, and quite a few using a mixture of 4 and 8 bars (mainly in Jazz/Gospel/Blues Styles), one of which, Bebop, uses all 16 bar variations.

There are quite a few Movie Styles using 16 bars, and all the FreePlay Styles that I tried, use 32 bars/variation.

It appears that Yamaha wisely uses the appropriate number of bars to:

1) Suit the genre of music...some music thrives on repetition, and some does not...hence the variety of lengths.

2) If a style works perfectly well with a 2 bar variation, it keeps the style's size small...therefore more styles can be present....however, this is used very sparingly on Tyros4...it has 500 on-board styles nonetheless.

Personally, I have Korg styles that were converted for Yamaha...some are good, and most are bland (to my ears) as they do not use mega voices.

This is where Yamaha styles really shine, in my opinion, and even 2 bar variations are superb.

Most music has chord changes every 2 to 4 bars and in regular play, it is sometimes hard to judge if a 4 bar/8 bar variation is any better than a 2 bar.

In regards to the KMA's small keys:

I have a strong feeling that most jazz, classical, and serious piano/keyboard players will, and do, consider them toy like and will not use them to any great degree, and certainly not as a main instrument. There will be, as always, the odd exception.

However, I can see the popularity on SZ, as most here who will use them, won't be playing a lot of chords in both hands (Donny's KMA demos bear this out to some degree, and again there will be the odd exception) and several will use them only to play, or play along with, SMF.. Those that need more real estate (room) can do as John Smies has been suggesting, and midi it up to a normal keyboard/controller.

As far as the KMA's sound...it sounds exactly like the 10 year old Korg arranger technology it is based on...PA-50SD on line demos bear this out, and if you are pleased with the sounds/styles, as most are, it should be fine...personally, I found the Right Hand and solo voices very "old Korgian" and nowhere near what is being used on present day models...of course, we must remember the huge price difference/advantage.

Having played on PSS mini-key arrangers made by Yamaha, and finding the whole experience very disappointing, I can't say I'd want to be playing a microArranger, except for a bit of fun, and not for long. It obviously has found a place in the hearts of many, and I applaud the genius at Korg, who was able to repackage 10-12 year old technology, and make a fair(hopefully) profit for the company, although a dealer would have to sell quite a few KMA to equal one PA3X (or PA-800, or Tyros or S910).

Enjoy guys (and gals)...and happy playing. Think of me when you play a "little tune" wink...and, please don't misconstrue my remarks as "sour grapes"...I believe everyone should use what meets and satisfies their needs in a keyboard instrument/arranger, and believe me, if Yamaha was making something similar (especially based on 10 year old tech), my criticisms (and praises) would be mostly the same.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#337609 - 01/27/12 02:40 AM Re: Scott Micro Arranger [Re: Saswick]
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Col,
you forgot about the fills, they're 32 bars also. haahaa. It's a brilliant system.

16 bars for the microarranger is pretty good too.

Don't think I've actually come across a 32 bar factory style though. The capability is there , but they don't do it.


Originally Posted By: Saswick
Hi Guys

The variations/intros/endings in the Korg styles can be up to 32 bars/measures long. This applys to the PA series but the Micro as far as I can see only allows 16 bars/measure.

Hope this helps

Regards

Col
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#337611 - 01/27/12 02:47 AM Re: Scott Micro Arranger [Re: bruno123]
Bernie9 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5507
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
I have spent some time now on my KMA and am having the time of my life making this little gem to my liking. I took it out on my show on Wednesday. I had it paired with my Nord Electro with a simple midi connection and styles controlled by both keyboards. The people just loved it.

I have just received John Smies CD,sounds, and really great styles with registration(performances). Some of these just blew me away. More on that later.

Don't sell your KMA

Bernie
_________________________
pa4X 76 ,SX900, Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station, Bose compact

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#337612 - 01/27/12 02:57 AM Re: Scott Micro Arranger [Re: bruno123]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
I'd be interested to hear how many bars/variation that Roland uses in it's styles.

I have G-70 conversions here, but it would be best answered by someone like Fran, who is very knowledgeable on Roland arrangers.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#337618 - 01/27/12 03:45 AM Re: Scott Micro Arranger [Re: ianmcnll]
john smies Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/05/00
Posts: 1384
Loc: koudekerke, Holland.

Ian,

Thanks for elaborating on the "how many bars "in the Tyros 4 styles.
Apparently I am not correct on the PSR either but in essence what I was trying to get across that in my perception the Korgs have generally used styles with longer bar-variations than the Yamahas. Whether that is always a good thing is another story and also very subjective to taste of course.

Quite a coincidence that you should mention you had a bunch of Korg styles to use in the Yamaha. An acquaintance of mine just mailed me the Korg PA800 styles for use in Yamaha. If anyone is interested just say so.

Bernie,
Thanks for your appreciation of my efforts. I know it has been a bit of a struggle so far to get things going due to the fact that I have not yet been able to get a Micro. However I was assured only this morning that I would have one at my disposal within a week or so. Therefor I am also putting on hold the delivery of my Resources until I have sorted out everything.

To Nigel, Scott, Bruno and others I can only recommend at least trying this little beastie. I think that most of you, once gotten the hang of it and having Midi-ed it up to a major keyboard, preferably with some of my Resources loaded , will still think it is a great asset no matter the fact we are talking about 10 year old technology.

regards,
JOhn

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#337621 - 01/27/12 04:33 AM Re: Scott Micro Arranger [Re: bruno123]
Bernie9 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5507
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
John

It was not any hassle, really. If I had had any previous Korg knowledge you would not have had to walk me through step by step.

It is nice to know that you are always right there to help, as you have so cheerfully demonstrated.
Thanks

Bernie
_________________________
pa4X 76 ,SX900, Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station, Bose compact

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#337622 - 01/27/12 04:51 AM Re: Scott Micro Arranger [Re: Bernie9]
bruno123 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4912
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
Korg Arrangers are not a “take out of the box and play”; they take a good amount of programing to get them up and ready. I put my Pa800 up for sale three times and decided to keep it each time; I am glad I did not sell it.

Having played other make keyboards for many years and then moving to a Korg keyboard which has an OS that is DIFFERENT is not an easy task. A new player with no arranger knowledge might find it easy to learn. I had relearn much of what I knew about Technics and Yamaha before I learn Korg’s OS.

Is the OS better in Korg? Most of it is but no keyboard has it all.

In the past I attended many Technic keyboard jams where we played and exchanged information and midi files, I had to look for new information when I moved to Korg. It was going to take a bit of time to gather this information – examples, a good library styles, more pads, and some good performances; Technics calls them Panel Memory;

NOT TRUE – John Smies offers a package that covered almost all my needs to really get going. He added ideas I had not thought about and a lot of work I will not have to do myself. A $40 donation is requested, I would have paid him more by far; It cost me $29 for 10 styles and set-up for my Technics. The good part; Almost every bit of his work can be considered keepers.

John C.

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#337646 - 01/27/12 08:10 AM Re: Scott Micro Arranger [Re: bruno123]
dralion Offline
Member

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 45
Originally Posted By: bruno123
Korg Arrangers are not a “take out of the box and play”; they take a good amount of programing to get them up and ready.


I totally agree.
My friend just sent me some PA-800 styles he converted for his PA-50 SD. All I have to do is load them into my microArranger and play. And they don't sound bad at all.
Let's have a listen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B09rHL_Nqhs&feature=youtu.be

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#337649 - 01/27/12 08:20 AM Re: Scott Micro Arranger [Re: dralion]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: dralion
Originally Posted By: bruno123
Korg Arrangers are not a “take out of the box and play”; they take a good amount of programing to get them up and ready.


I totally agree.
My friend just sent me some PA-800 styles he converted for his PA-50 SD. All I have to do is load them into my microArranger and play. And they don't sound bad at all.
Let's have a listen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B09rHL_Nqhs&feature=youtu.be



They really sound good.....thanx for the link.

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#337742 - 01/27/12 03:37 PM Re: Scott Micro Arranger [Re: dralion]
Scott Langholff Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/02
Posts: 3163
Loc: Pensacola, Florida, USA
That sounded really good dralion. Did you play melodies too or was that just intos, endings and some variations?
This makes me become more interested after having written off the idea of getting a MicroArranger.

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#337744 - 01/27/12 03:44 PM Re: Scott Micro Arranger [Re: bruno123]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
"Korg Arrangers are not a “take out of the box and play”; they take a good amount of programing to get them up and ready."

Amen! I am trying my very best to be patient until I get everything like I want it on the PA3X. I can take a Yamaha, Roland or Ketron right out of the box and play a job the same day.
I'm slowly getting there with the PA, and learning to appreciate it's capabilities.
DonM
_________________________
DonM

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#337763 - 01/27/12 04:48 PM Re: Scott Micro Arranger [Re: dralion]
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Dralion,
have you actually tweaked these, or are they just a straight EMC conversion??
I've got a number of user styles I did for my PA800, I could convert across , they may work ok also if the above haven't required tweaking.


Originally Posted By: dralion
Originally Posted By: bruno123
Korg Arrangers are not a “take out of the box and play”; they take a good amount of programing to get them up and ready.


I totally agree.
My friend just sent me some PA-800 styles he converted for his PA-50 SD. All I have to do is load them into my microArranger and play. And they don't sound bad at all.
Let's have a listen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B09rHL_Nqhs&feature=youtu.be

_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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#337775 - 01/27/12 08:22 PM Re: Scott Micro Arranger [Re: Scott Langholff]
dralion Offline
Member

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 45
Originally Posted By: Scott Langholff
That sounded really good dralion. Did you play melodies too or was that just intos, endings and some variations?
This makes me become more interested after having written off the idea of getting a MicroArranger.


Scott, there are no melodies, only intro 1, 4 variations, 2 fills, and ending 1.

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#337776 - 01/27/12 08:28 PM Re: Scott Micro Arranger [Re: rikkisbears]
dralion Offline
Member

Registered: 10/25/08
Posts: 45
Originally Posted By: rikkisbears
Hi Dralion,
have you actually tweaked these, or are they just a straight EMC conversion??
I've got a number of user styles I did for my PA800, I could convert across , they may work ok also if the above haven't required tweaking.


Rikki, my friend did the EMC conversion, I loaded the styles into my KMA and adjust some part's level.

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#337799 - 01/28/12 03:06 AM Re: Scott Micro Arranger [Re: dralion]
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 6020
Loc: NSW,Australia
thanks Dralion,
when I get a chance
I'll run mine thru the convertor.
Maybe they'll be of use to someone.
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki 🧸

Korg PA5X 88 note
SX900
Band in a Box 2022

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