Hi Guys

The hardware is obviously finished

http://www.youtube.com/user/KorgpaRo

Col

Thanx for the heads up on the Three Korg PA3X Videos...hope to see more soon.

But the hardware for an arranger is just basically the empty shell...

Until the styles and soundset are fixed, I doubt we are going to hear what the PA3X REALLY sounds like. You put T3 styles in a T4, it basically sounds like a T3! Only NEW styles, leveraging the NEW sounds and features is going to tell the full story.

Yes,
As far as I am concerned it is not even announced!

For me to buy one the sounds I need must be superior to the T4 or I will get a T4.

If it's just the same samples reworked a little with better FX...no dice for me.

I want top notch Orchestral voicing (I wish Kurzweil would build a TOTL arranger).

DNC sounds must be terriic, and the articulations playable (auto and with the switches).

I like Korg, but I'm not holding much hope it will have the sound I want. To be clear here...The PA3X is far superior to the T4 in features/function/editing/songbook/VH etc..but I may well be on my way to accepting the limited features on T4 to get the sound that suits me for what I play and want to play in the future.

all you have noted above screams Tyros4...
why torture yourself?

exactly DNJ. just get the T4 and make great music. It doesnt get much better than this and thats from a life long die harfd Korg fan.

There is still 15 things missing on T4 for my playstyle..

And what are you playing NOW that HAVE these 15 things that sounds better then a Tyros 4?...just wondering?

Bachus,
I know what you mean...it's NOT the sound, that's great. It's OS features/functions/songbook/editing/MIDI/ etc.

Sometimes you have to give up something to get something more important.
Bachus..Go agead and list the 15 items...I am interested in what everyone thinks about them...

Are you guys serious? Or maybe you just woke up. He's talking about the 15 keys that make a 61 key board a 76 key board. Bachus, never leave anything to chance on this board. Remember, these guys are old .

chas

Thank you Chas for clearing this up

Or it could be a compilation of other things besides the 15 extra keys. Like...

#1: Lack of a 76 key version. (already mentioned by Bachus)
#2: NO real sampler.
#3: FSX keybed still too light = toyish.
#4: Too expensive $$$$$ for what you get.
#5: Still can't edit Voices microscopically.
#6: $5,000+ yet NO - AWM"2" Tone Generation.
#7: Internal memory still miserly at just 6MB.
#8: NO "balanced" Input/Output connections
#9: NO XLR/Stereo Mic input
#10: NO Line IN for recording (that I'm aware of)
#11: No MIDI "Thru"
#12: Still only 128 note Polyphony... @ $5,000 you'd expect more e.g. 256.
#13: Plastic shell casing = toyish.
#14: Wasted space. Example... cup holder on right.
#15: It's a Yamaha???

All the best,
Mike

This is NOT in Romania, its in Turkey, there is more videos of this store.
And even though its not announced in stores nothing new for Turkey, when
it comes to PA we always had first EVERYTHING even double then original RAM.

Since when sounds a Tyros 4 better then a PA3X. Even the PA2X sounds better to me then the Tyros 4.

Very good points but your forgot a few

No Touchscreen
No Chord Sequencer
No Double Sequencer
No Pro Sequencer
No 4 way Joystick
No real synth engine
No final mastering effects
No Songbook
No Ribbon Control

well at least we are down to two units now...
I guess everything else on the market doesn't exist...
somethings never change.

FransN,
OK, I'll bite...You post here a demo/song/performance that sounds even close to those I have recently posted on T4 (NOT DANCE MUSIC) and I'll take a serious look!

I'll give you an example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPB5VbbDkCs
AND
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CboWVzXL5-8&feature=related
AND
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR7X9fCpbyw&feature=related
Finally
http://www.youtube.com/user/YAMATI40#p/u/61/nWJiC0JrgHs

Now that's a list I can get behind!

You guys have no idea how good a ribbon can be until you've worked with one for a while. Everything a wheel can do, and SO MUCH MORE...

Trills, hammer-ons and -offs (when YOU want them, not when velocity says you HAVE to have them), finger vibrato (no more mechanical LFO's!), slurs, un-tongued note phrases, greater bend range while STILL making small bends easy... The list goes on and on.

I guess, while the PA3X is the best of what is currently available to us as an arranger with the heart of a WS, what is sad is that it is still based primarily around the capabilities of the Triton... Which is what? Two or three generations of Korg WS's away. When are we finally going to get an arranger based on THIS generation's WS technology?

(And don't tell me the MS, or I'm going to have to repeat myself all over AGAIN!)

No Diki the PA2X and the new PA3X use the M3 sound engine not the Triton.

Why not Dance music? That's the music I like not that cheesy stuff. If this is the music you like you definitely must buy a Tyros 4.

But the voice architecture, and effects etc. seem very Triton-like, to me. There doesn't seem to be much from the M3 in the PA2X, that's for sure!

What (apart from some marketing-speak) exactly is different between the voice architectures of the Triton Extreme and the PA2X?

More oscillators per note? More velocity layers per note? More filter choices?

Bottom line is, even if there ARE (and I await you telling me), do they actually USE them, much. I certainly seem to HEAR a Triton when I hear a PA2...

The only different thing seems to be DNC, and just like Yamaha, that seems to be an arranger only feature so far, until it gets rolled into a new WS (does the Kronos have DNC? The M3 doesn't AFAIK). And it still is only as good as the samples that it is set up specifically for.

Possibly the engine might have changed, but from listening to M3 presets, and having heard a PA2X, very little in the way of the sounds themselves got ported over, IMO.

Frans, I know where you are coming from , but I must admit, this example just sounds like someone from an older generation TRYING to play an up to date style... and not quite 'getting' it.

There are all KINDS of things on that, from the out of tempo attempt to use the 'stutter' sound (got to play that MUCH better in tempo!) to the weird loop panned off to one side, to the muddy tympani rolls and orchestral hits, that just scream 'old guy'

I simply feel that much of this music really isn't 'played' so much as 'DJ'd', and there already are many pieces of kit that do that kind of loop manipulation. I'm just not quite convinced that this is a piece of kit with a use, you know, at least for the older crowd. And younger kids into the style, they are using Ableton Live, Fruity Loops, and things like that (I don't think Ableton runs on the MS, does it? Be nice if it could) and may not be into the more traditional 'do it on a keyboard' approach. I mean, look at how most of the keyboards designed for the younger, dance and synth crowd have only tiny little 37 or 49 note keyboards! They aren't using them to PLAY, just trigger loops, make little bubbly synth noises, stuff like that.

Now, don't get me wrong. In the hands of someone SERIOUS, I bet the MS can do a really decent dance remix. But this sure isn't it!

Diki you have to visit the Korg forum. There are people who claim that the PA's including my PA500 have the exact editing possibilities then a M3. The only difference is that the M3 have more insert effects but this problem is solved with the PA3x. And yes it can load Triton sounds but that's the beauty of a Korg PA it can sound different. For example I have the Musikant which sound very different then the normal PA500 but it can also sound like the normal PA500. It is all about sound editing.

But apart from synth sounds, you can only edit a sample so far... You aren't going to change a poor vibrato'd sax into a better one, or fix a bad sample match over the keyboard, and the like.

I guess, more to the point, then, is that the M3 wasn't really THAT different to the Triton. Much of the voice architecture remains. It's not like the Kronos, which seems an utterly new engine from the M3/Triton (but it may have common elements from the Oasys). In honesty, when I tried the M3, I wasn't blown away by the sounds. They all seemed to have very common connections to the Tritons, too. A few better sample sets, but it didn't seem a ground up reinvention, which the Kronos does.

The thing that set the M3 apart were more to do with the KARMA and the arpeggiators, if you get my drift. None of which have made it to the arranger line (more's the pity). That and the increase in FX...

I guess what I was originally trying to say was, in a ROMpler, the samples themselves are the defining source of the 'sound'. And the PA2X screamed 'Triton'!

Ahh the Kronos. How much I want that synth. Together with the Roland BK 7M seems like the best option sofar

I have yet to play either, but I got to admit, I'm getting a little gear lust for that combo!

Diki,
Yes, the PA2XPRO is basically the same EDS synh engine. KORG EDS (Enhanced Definition Synthesis) sound generator: 120 Voices, 120 Oscillators – Filters with Resonance - Three band EQ for each track. RX tehnology etc. But it has less editing capabilites. And M3 sounds can not be imported (less FX ect. and the stucture is different) Also, I spent a day with a M3 ( I was thinking of adding a M3 module), it has the same problems with the same sounds as the PA2...go figure!
I really think the PA2 has a great sound engne, not a OASYS, or Kronos, but fine...the issue is Korg played it cheap and did not do the sound engineering the should have. Most of the poblems I have ARE in the samples. They need some new Freeking samples.
Once again, most people don't have as much of a problem with the sounds as I do.

Also, I have seen the guy that is the Korg PA...his demos indicate that he does not pay all that much attention to orchestral voicing, that's only based on his demo's.

Yes, I agree,why did they not make the new PA3X based on the sounds of the Kronos? Probably concern over competition with the Kronos, and more likely pure cost. It's cheaper to just do a upgrade of what you have (Hello Yamaha)VS a re-do from th ground up. Maybe next time.

FransN, If you watch all his dem's it's not the slow cheezy stuff only. Yes, I am older, 62, what do you think the average age of us arrnger players is? Just look at the poll that was done. Anyways the instrument can do any genre, not just the stuff I like. It's got some mean guitars too.
You do have to wander...why do we not find anyone playing the music like Solitare plays? Just search PA2XPRO on youtube. Almost all Middle Eastern music...why?

No doubt in my mind the Korg is a supeior PRO arranger overall. But, this time I'm going with sound quaity. We'll see if the PA3X measures up.

What I like and respect from Yamaha players is that they never complain. Korg players always complain. Just take a look on the Korg forum and you will see what I mean. Korg just demoed the Kronos and already people complained that the Kronos did't have the same sequencer as the M3. And a lot more. Same for the new PA3X. Another story is it on the German Korg forum. I think people in Europe are really satisfied with what they playing including me.

I think Korg get very frustated about this.

"Korg players always complain." Errrr . . . not this one. I've no desire to switch to anything else. This board does what I want it to do. Simples.

Glad to hear that