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#31272 - 02/13/04 02:33 AM Re: Is it time to look for another brand ?
nedsolaud Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/03/02
Posts: 5
Loc: Germany
Hello Denis007,

I think nearly every company is promising "NON-OBSOLESCENCE" somehow when it`s possible to load a new O.S. via disc drive. (maybe a marketing gag?)
I dont know what you think, but I dont believe them. (I´m a strange man, I dont believe everything the industry tells me, not only in music matters) If this "NON-OBSOLESCENCE" would be a principle of industry on this planet my old VW BEETLE from 1964 would be still state-of-the-art.

For a very long time I was playing the GEM WK 4 (1996) and the dealer was telling me of "NON-OBSOLENCE" because it was one of the first keyboards to be updated via disc.
O.S. update developing for this keyboard stopped 1998!

If the "NON-OBSOLESCENCE" of the X1 was the naked truth, the developement of the SD1 must be a big mistake. Why should they develope a new instrument when the old one will be the "state-of-the-art" for the next 20 years. Maybe because the hardware and processor possibilities are changing like at the computers?

The current O.S. version of the X1 is 4.0, so there not only were "smaller upgrades".
Can you imagine what happens if the X1 would have the same possibilities as the SD1?
Maybe the X1 will explode because the processor is to slow.

The last 10 years the music industry is developing faster and the competition is growing harder. One reason could be the possibility to update a O.S. via disc. This leads EVERY company to faster presentations and I dont now ONE SINGULAR instrument which is working perfectly from the O.S. Version 1.0.


nedsolaud


(By the way: The latest O.S. for the PSR 9000pro still was not solving the timing problems when playing a midifile. Maybe with a new update coming 2006, because as you said it`s a regular feature at professional instruments).

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#31273 - 02/13/04 08:06 AM Re: Is it time to look for another brand ?
KFingers Offline
Member

Registered: 08/21/02
Posts: 366
Loc: Brighton - UK
Just my twopenny worth - I agree with Ned in as much as it is naive to expect a manufacturer to deliver "non-obsolesence". Where would their future sales come from??

However, I think that upgrades should appear that address bugs or shortcoming to the advertised specification.

I have played Ketron and Solton a long time now and anxiously awaited additional memory for the MS40 for many years so that I could have more than 4 or 5 user styles loaded before realising that this vague promise wasn't ever going to be realised. If you look on the net at the Yahoo MS40 group they are still going on about it.

No - you need to be satisfied that what you buy is what you get at the time - I swapped up to the XD3 and should have changed years ago. Although Yamaha have issued upgraded OS for different models these were mainly to fix early release bugs just like Ketron did with both the X1 and the XD9 so what's the difference.

If you are dissatisfied with the product then vote with your wallet. I have now tried the Tyros, and the Technics 7000 along with lots of earlier models and I'd rather have what I have than anything else (well perhaps the Tyros if it wasn't so overpriced although I still find the drums a bit insipid and I can't find a GEM to try)

Only my humble opinion of course

Regards - KF

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#31274 - 02/13/04 08:45 AM Re: Is it time to look for another brand ?
Denis007 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/15/01
Posts: 182
Loc: Ottawa,ONT,CANADA
nedsolaud,

Now you sound like a Ketron dealer.
Of course it is not profitable for them to make one keyboard and continue to upgrade it forever.
But, try to think from the consumer’s perspective and remember what was promised when X1 was introduced.

Again, I don't care what happened with you GM WK4, that is another brand with different reputation and so on. That why I didn't go for GM. Ketron was recognized as a small but customer oriented company's which differentiated Ketron from big guys like Korg and Yamaha. That was one reason why I decided to go for Ketron. But now it looks that the advantage was "fake".

It is true that there is no single instrument with a perfect OS but I never had hung-ups with my Triton or 9000pro. As I mentioned before, users confirmed X freezing on them when using the flash card or when switching from sounds with aftertouch.
This is far from "the reliable". I am not looking for a perfect OS but for one which will allow me to use all features properly and not hung-up on me in the middle of a gig.

Another thing ...
The industry is changing and the competition is growing. Now the small things, like quality of customer service, expansion capabilities, upgrade capabilities are winning the market. Keyboards are becoming similar in sounds quality and features so the companies are going and extra step to secure the market. That includes things that maybe don't make sense from profitability point of view, like OS upgrades.
I am sure that was just a dream when your old Beetle was released.Times have changes
Btw, auto industry is changing much slower than computer industry ...

The bottom line is X series attracted many customers with the non-obsolesce promise. We all know we can not expect endless upgrades but we deserve to have a stable OS in order to enjoy all features of X series. Now, if X1 was one of the cheap Casio keyboards, I would not expect much, but Ketron is known as one of the most expensive arrangers on the market. I guess a high price should be followed by high quality otherwise who would buy it ?

D.

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#31275 - 02/15/04 10:12 AM Re: Is it time to look for another brand ?
The Accordionist Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 221
Yes.

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#31276 - 02/15/04 11:04 AM Re: Is it time to look for another brand ?
Alex K Offline
Member

Registered: 12/03/99
Posts: 731
Loc: Phoenix, AZ USA
I am not a Ketron user, but still want to chime in on this discussion.

I did see many promotional materials about X-1, which were all very explicit in heralding non-obsolescencse. They were touting it as the feature which would set the X1 apart from the competition. Whatever experience we have had with other brands does not apply to Ketron if thet is how they positioned themselves.

Even if they had not advertize their instrument this way, they are still obligated to provide critical fixes to the OS (and granted, they have done some of that). But as long as there are other outstanding stability problems, Ketron MUST address those (even if it is past the warranty period of the instrument). I believe this is the consumer law in most states in the US.

As far as changes that would be considered straight enhancements: a number of other companies had provided those to the users for free, without any apparent necessity (e.g. Korg PA80 Ver 3, and Ketron's own SD1 Ver 4). It is not unfair for the other Ketron users, sold on the concept of non-obsolescense, to expect similar treatment. However, I am sure that even if Ketron wanted to charge each user a reasonable fee (I'd pay up to $100, or maybe even more, depending on what was in the upgrade), this would still be preferrable to getting rid of the instrument one is used to.

Just my $.02.

REgards,
Alex
_________________________
Regards,
Alex

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#31277 - 02/17/04 12:41 PM Re: Is it time to look for another brand ?
Tom Cavanaugh Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/06/99
Posts: 2121
Loc: Muskegon, MI
I too am getting tired of waiting for the X-1 upgrade. I have had no operational bugs or complaints. However there are some things that could be better. How about a better piano? How about a Rumba pattern. How about some 12/8 patterns. How about some better guitars?

Ketron promised that our keyboards would not become outdated. I believed them. I guess I really should know better.
_________________________
Thanks,

Tom

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#31278 - 02/23/04 09:13 PM Re: Is it time to look for another brand ?
Ketron_AJ Offline
Moderator

Registered: 03/21/01
Posts: 3203
Loc: Middletown, DE
Team,

Could someone please point me in the right direction (or just give me a link) to all the suggested OS updates for the X1? There was one created on this forum a while back but I can't seem to find it.

I believe I currently have an incomplete list at hand and would like to cross-reference what we currently have.

Thanks,

AJ
_________________________
[KETRON - USA]
Design Engineer & Product Specialist.
www.KetronAmerica.com

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#31279 - 02/24/04 02:42 PM Re: Is it time to look for another brand ?
Organizer Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/10/99
Posts: 23
Loc: Maplewood, NJ, USA
AJ...If you do a name search on Organizer, going back to about March, 2003, that will, at least, give you a start in your quest for requested updates.

Art

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#31280 - 02/24/04 03:50 PM Re: Is it time to look for another brand ?
DanO1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/01
Posts: 3602
Loc: Maryland
Anyone have a link to this (or for this) that can speed this up?
_________________________
dansmusicgear@aol.com
https://www.reverbnation.com/danoneil?profile_view_source=profile_box

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#31281 - 02/16/05 08:33 PM Re: Is it time to look for another brand ?
nick_h Offline
Member

Registered: 09/30/02
Posts: 53
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Hello:
Ketron User:
I noticed that you had posted a link to a site regarding the Ketron .snd file format. I am trying to create the file to load sounds into the Vega keyboard. Have you had any luck finding a sound bank compiler that can do that?
Thanks.
Nick

Please email me at Thunder004@aol.com


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 02-13-2004).][/B][/QUOTE]

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