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#309687 - 12/26/06 01:21 PM using a receptor with arranger keyboard
oleg7 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/10/02
Posts: 54
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
I have just recently become aware of Receptor (hardware VST player) and was reading on their web site that one can use program change MIDI messages to call up sounds. I have a Yamaha arranger keyboard and am looking for a way to improve the sounds in the internal styles by using an external software sound source.

If a receptor can respond to program messages, it seems that it could be used with an arranger keyboard that sends out program changes when the styles or sounds are selected (on the keyboard) and by muting the internal style parts one could possilbly trigger the sounds within Receptor and thus subtitute internal sounds.

Has anyone tried this ?

P.S. I hope this question is more relevant to this software forum rather than to the General Arranger forum.

Thanks.



[This message has been edited by oleg7 (edited 12-26-2006).]

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#309688 - 12/26/06 05:42 PM Re: using a receptor with arranger keyboard
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 4243
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi,
I think you could have some hassles doing this.
Bernie has a Receptor so he would be of more help than me. I think you would run into problems with loading times (& maybe program & bank changes).

Strangely enough, I've just gone thru the process of trying to midi my psr1500 to a ketron sd2 soundmodule ( with limited success). I actually bought the module for my One Man Band software, & had more success with it than with the psr/sd2 setup.

Some of the psr hassles I had,
no way of physically muting psr's internal sounds except by turning local control to "off" for all the style tracks. Means I can't use a mix of internal & external sounds for style parts. Michael Bedesem did come up with a solution for me, but it means altering all the styles.

Another problem I found was with program & bank changes on the sd2. The changes the psr was sending out were not suitable for the sd2. Again it means altering the psr's styles program & bank changes (have to do this even for my OMB software).

Drum mapping probably won't match your psr, means editing the drum tracks.

A lot of the problems I had may not be applicable. The one that you may need to be really careful of could be loading times.

I actually also midied my psr to my pc to see if I could use soundfonts as a soundsource for the psr. I have used them for OMB software, but wasn't sure if I could get them to work directly with the psr. They actually could be set up to suit the psr bank & program changes, & the drum mapping. Be a lot of work though.

I haven't had a chance to get back to trying it, but if you're interested I'll let you know how I go.

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by oleg7:
[B]I
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki

Korg PA4x, Korg PA3X, PSR S950, Band in a Box 2016
V Arranger/Ketron SD2

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#309689 - 12/26/06 10:44 PM Re: using a receptor with arranger keyboard
oleg7 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/10/02
Posts: 54
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Rikki, thanks for your reply. Hopefully someone that has a receptor can share more specific info. Certanly, there is setup work involved within the keyboard or the "software sound module", I would be willing to do the work if the end result would be what I am looking for.

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#309690 - 12/26/06 11:38 PM Re: using a receptor with arranger keyboard
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 4243
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi,
a few memembers in the group have been putting together softsynth/software arranger setups on our pc's.
ie OMB/Livestyler software plus a software soundsource.
For the style part voices we're still fairly restricted because the soundsource has to be able to do bank & program changes instantaneously. You can't really use software synth/sampler that takes the time to load.
I've been using soundfonts, Frank has Bandstand, I've also tried Hypercanvas, & there's also another program called Hypersonic.

My psr1500 does send out it's styles etc via midi. I tried it with my soundfonts & it worked.

Have you possibly considered something like a Mediastation or a Wersi if the Receptor isn't suitable.

best wishes
Rikki

p.s
hopefully Bernie will check in. He has a Receptor but I'm not sure if he's actually planning to use it with style parts.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by oleg7:
[B]
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki

Korg PA4x, Korg PA3X, PSR S950, Band in a Box 2016
V Arranger/Ketron SD2

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#309691 - 12/27/06 11:48 AM Re: using a receptor with arranger keyboard
oleg7 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/10/02
Posts: 54
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
The only parameter I have is using an arranger keyboard as a start (for style playing and control). Not necessarily for the sound. For someone that mostly wants to use styles, this makes sence to me because a dedicated arranger keyboard has the best user interface for style play. And if the internal sound is not a factor, there is no need to ever change the keyboard since the styles can be loaded, changed, etc. I need to have a piano type keyboard anyway to play styles, why use a MIDI controller and a computer keyboard or a mouse instead of a better tool... Of couse most MIDI controllers are very inexpensive compared to an arranger keyboard but this is not an issue for me.

As far as an external sound source I am open to either a computer (preferrably a laptop) or a dedicated hardware player (like a receptor) to trigger the sounds. I also would like the highest sound quality possible as long as this does not require long sample load times. I play for myself only and do not mind even a 30 second load time (per style change). A nice thing about a dedicated player is the fact that everything is optimized for running VST instruments and all the hardware is in one box.

I do not mind any setup work as long as this work needs to be done 1 time and the subsequent use does not require me to fiddle around with that external sound source. I just want to turn on my keyboard, the external sound source, start all necessary programs, manually load samples (only once per session, if needed) and play any style in the keyboard without any other adjustments.

I think that some form of a solution already exists out there, it is a matter of picking one that is will suit my needs the most.

Thanks.






[This message has been edited by oleg7 (edited 12-27-2006).]

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#309692 - 12/27/06 12:36 PM Re: using a receptor with arranger keyboard
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 4243
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi,
basically discovered I can use my psr1500 or my OMB software to play my psr user styles. The styles are interchangeable between the 2.

The problem is still a suitable soundsource.
As far as I'm aware, top quality sample players use a streaming method , they don't load all the samples into memory in one go .

Lesser quality stuff like soundfonts load into memory & will work . I think Hypercanvas should work.

Good luck with your hunt. If you find something suitable , please let me know.
best wishes
Rikki
[QUOTE]Originally posted by oleg7:
[B]
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki

Korg PA4x, Korg PA3X, PSR S950, Band in a Box 2016
V Arranger/Ketron SD2

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#309693 - 12/27/06 01:30 PM Re: using a receptor with arranger keyboard
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4532
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Hi Oleg7
Best way to try the use of VSTs with your Yamaha is to download some free ones (or trial versions from the larger manufactures) and then load them on to your computer, and connect your Yamaha to the computer, and just see how it goes.
As to learning how to use them, then a Wersi keyboard and VSTs is quite straight forward, an Arranger and computer however is a very steep learning curve, while the Receptor is midway between the 2.
Hope this helps

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#309694 - 12/27/06 06:16 PM Re: using a receptor with arranger keyboard
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 4243
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Bill,
I'm not really familiar with vst's ( Dxi's, yes)

Are they basically banks of instruments or are they individual instruments, in which case how would you organize them for use with an arranger?

Or is that what you mean by steep learning curve.

best wishes
rikki

Quote:
Originally posted by abacus:
.
As to learning how to use them, then a Wersi keyboard and VSTs is quite straight forward, an Arranger and computer however is a very steep learning curve, while the Receptor is midway between the 2.
Hope this helps

Bill
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki

Korg PA4x, Korg PA3X, PSR S950, Band in a Box 2016
V Arranger/Ketron SD2

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#309695 - 12/27/06 08:40 PM Re: using a receptor with arranger keyboard
oleg7 Offline
Member

Registered: 03/10/02
Posts: 54
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Thanks for the replies. Maybe I need to read up on Wersi and other computer based arrangers. But, I still would like to understand the receptor alternative, especially if it adds the ability to call up any VST instrument using a MIDI message. This feature alone makes it more usable than the software based VST hosts, although I do not know for sure that such software hosts do not exist... I just like the fact that receptor is all one box and do not even need a screen to use it if is it configured to load all necessary instruments. Plus, it has inputs for a mic and guitar if you want to use effect plug ins. Also, NAMM is around the corner and we should possibly see more advances in the "virtual instrument" arena.

Thanks.

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#309696 - 12/28/06 12:41 AM Re: using a receptor with arranger keyboard
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4532
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Hi Rikki
VSTs come in 3 main types, Dedicated Instruments, Large Sample Sets and Effects, all of which require their own CPU power and Ram, the Art is to configure what Instruments and sounds you require for a song(s) in such a way that the computer system does not fall over. (Depending on the computer system and VSTs used, you may need a different configuration for each song)
This is the steep learning curve I mentioned.
I hope to post about VST use and Wersi on my web site when I have the time, the main advantage being that as Wersi have full control of the interface, VSTs become almost as easy to use as just loading in another sound.
Hope this helps

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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