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#309425 - 07/20/06 07:43 PM Realtime Style Performer
Scott Langholff Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/02
Posts: 2969
Loc: Pensacola, Florida, USA
I happened to come across this site. Anyone use this?
http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/bentley/615/SoundFonts/NeySite.htm#

Besides OMB, Live Styler, Jammer Live, are there any other similar programs worth checking into?

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#309426 - 07/21/06 12:56 AM Re: Realtime Style Performer
Nigel Offline
Admin

Registered: 06/01/98
Posts: 5937
Loc: Ventura CA USA
Everything in this category I hear about I list on http://www.synthzone.com/midiaccomp.htm


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 07-21-2006).]

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#309427 - 07/21/06 01:21 AM Re: Realtime Style Performer
Bernie9 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 3925
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
Hi Scott
Very interesting, but new to me. This is one area of softsynth music creation I have not addressed, but have to before long.

I have been told by programmers, that arranger functions have, by in large, been overlooked in the software industry. It seems to be a niche market.

If something happened to my keyboard, I guess I would have to bring a laptop with Band in a box and some midi's. A very unsettling thought.

Since I have always had arrangers, I never thought of alternatives. It seems too time consuming to make all my needed styles from scratch, even if I could.

What would you recommend ?

Sorry to hijack your post.
Bernie
_________________________
pa4X 76 ,Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station

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#309428 - 07/21/06 01:27 AM Re: Realtime Style Performer
Bernie9 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 3925
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
Thanks Nigel. We posted at the same time. I will check this out.

Bernie
_________________________
pa4X 76 ,Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station

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#309429 - 07/21/06 05:50 AM Re: Realtime Style Performer
RobertG Offline
Member

Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 464
Loc: Southeastern PA, USA
Do you think any legitimate companies are going to enter this space? Even the more established products like OMB, Jammer and BIAB are somewhat amateurish as a piece of software goes. I am sure that some people get some pro sounding results out of these. But I am talking about software at the level of Finale, Reason, MOTU, etc. Liontracks has made some attempts but with their hardware. Just wondering out loud about when we will have real Tyros/G80/PA1X replacement options that are laptop based.

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#309430 - 07/21/06 12:34 PM Re: Realtime Style Performer
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4558
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Hi RobertG
I have a couple of questions.

1. Define Professional.

2. What can the Tyros/E80 etc do, that OMB cant.

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#309431 - 07/21/06 02:46 PM Re: Realtime Style Performer
Scott Langholff Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/02
Posts: 2969
Loc: Pensacola, Florida, USA
Hi Bernie

What would I recommend? I don't even consider myself a novice yet, but my idea as a player and a teacher, is to download OMB, Live Styler and maybe Jammer Live and just start diddeling with them and keep checking into this and related forums. I wouldn't go at any of this too fast as far as learning and understanding as it is, unless you are a real techie, could just about blow most people away.

I am interested enough just to kind of slowly play around with it and see how it all works and sounds, how much work is involved, if I enjoy doing the work, find out if it's satisfying, etc, etc. I don't think most people will get a quick answer or feel for this, unless they grew up as a kid with a computer and understand a bunch of that.

Anyway, this is the approach I am taking this time. I have tried this soft approach a few other times, but I was too impatient, wanting to jump ahead of my understanding and ability, so I'd get frustarted and dump it.

This time, I realize I don't know much, that it's really new to most people, even the ones that are doing it rather well. So, I'm going to go at it with a I'm just going to play around with this attitude. When I play around with it, I will only do it as long as it is fun and interesting. If I get frustrated, I know it is time to stop for the moment and come back.

This I feel is the best approach on this science, which is the way I view what this really is.

Best
Scott
http://ScottLMusic.com

[This message has been edited by Scott Langholff (edited 07-21-2006).]

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#309432 - 07/21/06 07:55 PM Re: Realtime Style Performer
RobertG Offline
Member

Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 464
Loc: Southeastern PA, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by abacus:
Hi RobertG
I have a couple of questions.

1. Define Professional.

2. What can the Tyros/E80 etc do, that OMB cant.

Bill


Bill: Fair questions. Let me take some time to elaborate/pontificate.

These are of course my opinions. But I base them on my experience of over 25 years of working with electronic music and computer programming both as a profession and an advocation. So I while I may not have the familarity with every feature of every product I do know what effort it takes to get a type of end result.

1. Professional = A fit and finish of interface, documentation, presentation, and integration. An ability to be a comprehensive stand-alone product or established relationships with companion products to provide a comprehensive solution.

OMB as example looks like a vb app written several years ago. I don't see the quality of programming or new ideas you see in other places. Page though any recent issue of Keyboard Magazine to see what I mean. I know that the argument can be made of function over form. However, it's an indicator of the level of the product. Compare web sites of www.1manband.nl/omb.htm to http://www.motu.com/products/software/dp/features50/.
On the business front show me how I can go to OMB and say show me a comprehensive solution that equals or betters my T2. Listing out-of-production yamaha styles doesn't cut it, compared to the latest styles available on the latest Yamaha, Roland, Korg products. Sure, there is an active shareware/freeware community of styles. But it is not a comprehensive integrated approach that I can implement without 100s of hours of searching and configuring.

Now look at the screen shots of Jammer Pro http://www.soundtrek.com/content/_extras/images/screenshots/pro6/
Tell me which one of the screens shows me that it can do real-time performance changes like my T2 can, switch between 8 registrations and a potential of four variation within each registration.

I know an app is more than the marketing around it, but it is an indication of R&D investment of it. I don't mean to knock the effort of OMB, Jammer, or other similar apps. I am just making the statement that they are not in the same league as other music apps in other categories. Perhaps the arranger category will never garner that kind of investment dollar. Perhaps in the future Yamaha/Roland/Korg will look to unbundle arranger functionality to allow for a software-based solution. I doubt if they will see the economics of it. It will take a disruptive technology from a third-party to come along and force them to adapt. Who knows maybe Apple will come up with Gargage Arranger?

2. As a < two month owner of a T2 I do not consider myself an expert on it to tell you what is missing in OMB. And I am not very familar with OMB other than reading it's web site. What I see missing is a comprehensive solution. Maybe OMB doesn't get its message across clearly to me. But that's part of a professional solution.

If I could do with OMB, a laptop and a midi controller what I can do with my T2 and have access to all of the VST sounds and third party loops I would consider it. I just don't see it yet. If OMB/Jammer really had something they should get some venture money to take the product to the next level in ways of presentation of the product, marketing, and consumer education.

It's a problem of economics. If all the people who wanted a pc-based arranger bought one. How big would that market be? Let's say 100,000 units (I think that is generous) What is a reasonable market-share to get? Let say with little competition you could get 20% (again very generous) So we are talking about 20,000 units at best. Sell them for $200/ea and make $4 million. How do you compete against the marketing effort of Yamaha/Roland/Korg/Casio that wants consumers to believe in their proprietary hardware-based solutions? Now subtract out development costs, marketing, support, etc and you are not left with a hugh opportunity. Don't get me wrong you can build a small company around it, and sell to the education market as well, but you don't break out to the next level. These are the economic realities of today's consumer or in this case prosumer software development. Another direction is to find new ways to take your existing customer's money. Band-in-a-box is an example of that. They have created a pretty diverse product line. However, is BIAB a great real-time arranger/performer? No, but it does what it does pretty well.

For me, I'll keep watching the software options develop, maybe even fool around with some of them, but keep making music with my T2.

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#309433 - 07/24/06 08:46 AM Re: Realtime Style Performer
Starkeeper Offline
Member

Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 1704
Loc: Toronto
I agree with RobertG. OMB and Live Styler are not professional.
OMB can't host vst or soundfonts, this necessitates more external software: a host (Forte), a soundfont host (LS Pro), virtual cable (MIDI Yoke), a driver (ASIO4ALL), etc.
Live Styler, uses numbers (instead of notes) to set the split point. I was trying to adjust the accompaniment volume on the weekend and couldn't find how to adjust the volume. It's called "MELODY". Wouldn't that be what you play in your right hand? It should be called "ACCOMPANIMENT".
Both take time, patience, lots of trial and error, and lots of help to setup properly.
I haven't demoed Hypersonic 2 yet, but I think this type of vst is the way to go. It inclues GM voices and lead voices.
A true professional softsynth arranger would include standard high quality voices. This would make it a total usueable package, right out of the box. Just an opion.
Starkeeper



[This message has been edited by Starkeeper (edited 07-24-2006).]
_________________________
I play Roland EM20 and Yamaha PSR550

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#309434 - 07/24/06 06:52 PM Re: Realtime Style Performer
Frank L. Rosenthal Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/18/00
Posts: 1007
I like it just the way it is so that I can get in there and make it my system. Keep it separate!!!

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