Hey guys,

As promised, I have been looking into editing SND files for the X1. Here's the latest ...

There's good news and bad news. The good news is that the SND file content is made up mostly, of PCM wave data (for those who are familiar with the terminology, this will make sense, for those who are not, I would be more than happy to explain in detail via email). Which means that for the most part, it is editable, with some hacking and re-coding (done by yours truley).

That bieng said, I have been successful at extraploating SND files into standard WAVE files. So for those of you who are interested, yes, I have all the X1 samples in WAV format. Of course, this would mean that you could only edit and import back into the X1 as MSP format.

Which brings me to the next of point, the bad news. Because I have no source to go by in determining the rest of the SND file contents, I would have NO WAY of bieng able to import a WAVE back into a SND file, with its loop points, key signature, etc .... So to sum it up, unless you give me a sample with the exact same loop point, size, and key signature as an existing sample on-board the X1 Oriental SNDs, you will not have correct sounding samples bieng played from the X1.

So for now, all I can do for you all is give you the X1 samples in raw WAV format. I *might* be able to do some minor editing and change of the on-board samples, but that is about it.

Maybe down the line, as I work more and more with this f....ed up file type, I can start understanding it some more. And maybe even more down the line, I would be able to write some software (Windows Based) that would allow you to make some SND file changes. But as of today, at least I can do a little bit for some of you!

Hope it helps !!!

-Aboud

Abboud
would you please email them to me, my email is eddydy@aol.com.

Let me ask you this thought, what did you use to extract the waves, in the past i tried couple of programs to do that but the result wasn't very succesefull, one of the program that i used was Cool edit, i kept getting all the multisamples in one long wave at a very high pitch, i tried other Hrtz settings, it was getting better but i gave up at the end.

In the other hand, this subject of creating SND files for the X1 was raised more than one time here especialy by me, Here take a look at this thread that i started over a year ago:

http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum42/HTML/000030.html

EDDY

Aboud I told you that you would be a vital part to our synthzone family. Good work my friend.

Eddy if what you are planning to do with those WAV files is what I am thinking then great . Call me this weekend if you can and lets talk.

Aboud, my final question...will we be able to select certain samples from "different SND kits" and combine them together into a final KIT?

[This message has been edited by Mosiqaar (edited 08-20-2002).]

Unbelievable,
Samer, OOOOOh man, you�re just reading my mind for the second time !! Remember the first time when we saw the first Vega picture with the Oriental scale?

Maged

Maged,

I don't know what it is tonight but ur the second guy who says this to me...I am reading their mind lol...I am getting to be psychic!!!

Remind of the Vega buttons thing please...I am not sure I remember, but I am sure it will be worth remembering

MAN AM I DREAAAAAMING!!!
Well Aboud you are the man!!
Send me those files please and i be happy,hope i can see you in the MSN,my adress there is "rundmc38@hotmail.com" i would be happy to chat with a great man like you buddy....
Thanks Aboud ,and very very Smart thing you came up with!!!
Please Aboud if you want to send me them send them to ziad.aslan@bredband.net

Thanks
/Ziad

Thank you *VERY* much for the compliments, Ziad, Samer, and Eddy !!!

I would love to get these sounds out to all of you via e-mail, but my e-mail does not support large attachments!!! So, I think the best way to send them out is by all of us getting on MSN, Yahoo, or AOL messanger. Then I can just do a direct file transfer.

Here's all my messanging information, most of the time, I am on either AOL or MSN.

AOL: HyperAG
MSN: aboudghazi@hotmail.com
Yahoo: aboudg

And now, here's some answers to some of your questions:

Eddy - I can get into all the complications and details of how the deed was done, but I can write pages about that! Let me just sum it up, to cure your curiosity.

I did not use any sound editor of any kind. There is NO sound editor available that can open a file type SND, or even emulate to open it as a WAV and get you the proper samples. Not possible, because all of the header information stored in the SND file's first 2K of bytes or so is specific only to that SND format. In addition, the sampling rate on every sample is dynamic (differs), and on a WAVE file, you typically have a fixed sample rate. That would explain your out-of-tune attempts.

But that doesn't mean, much like other software hackers would tell you, that it is impossible to obtain the samples. It's a matter of bieng able to recoginize the signature of a WAV file and writing an algorithm to extrapolate that within the SND file to match a typical WAV file. So to sum up, I ripped apart the SND files piece by piece and converted the algorithmic format type into that of a WAV.

If that sounded too compkex for most you, thats ok! There's not many people out there who know HEX editing and binary-data manipulation. I'll be glad to start up an "Intro to Hacking" classroom for all of you if there is enough interest!!! :-)

Samer: I talked to you on MSN yesterday, so I gave you the answer to your question. Just to post it here though, I *MIGHT* be able to replace some drum sounds on the exisiting 8MB drumset with some from another set (uh hmmm....), but that is going to be a little hard to test considering the fact that I sold my X1 a few days ago and I would not have a way of checking the SND format when I put it back together!!!

And I also believe that I might be able to do some lead sample replacments (strings, aoud, etc ...). Given the lack of an X1, it would be pretty much a hit or miss deal though.

Ziad: I have added you to my contacts list buddy! I am always willing to help, in any way I can!!! Meet me on AOL or MSN and I will send you whatever you like.

-Aboud

>>I'll be glad to start up an "Intro to Hacking" classroom for all of you if there is enough interest!!! :-)<<

Aboud
I'm most definetly interested in that kind of stuff, if you can direct me to where i can find information on that topic, in the internet or elswhere, i'd appreciate it.

Eddy

Well for the first of all,i have to thank Aboud,and everybody here in,what a good job guys,i mean everybody is helping each other in a way like we are brothers,and i like that...Thanks to all of you....

Aboud you have changed the history,man i need a lession in "hex and binary"

i have a question for you Aboud:
i mean when you load the 16SND files,you cant just load the first 5 or 6 you have to laod all of them,is there any way to break that "rule",if there is i would load the first 8SND to Flash card,and the other 8 to simm,in that way i have 8Mb empty for samples....

And thanks for Added me in the MSN,see you there,cause i have some questions for you Aboud!!

And Eddy,nice picture on you in that old mail,but you dont look Old,you look like a Star,and i missed that picture,say hello to the kids

Salamat
/Ziad

Sup guys ...

Ok, some more answers ...

Eddy: There's not many places (if any at all) where you can go to on the internet to look up specific information such as this (that I know of at least). The reason why I know much and am proficient in binary/hex manipulation is because that was my main course of study during my 5-year Systems Engineering degree. And since I just graduated 7 months ago, this stuff is still fresh in my mind. Otherwise, believe me, I would have shot myself lookin at that stuff also!

Since there seems to be a lot of interest in this type of topic, maybe we should set up a conference between all of us and I will lead a discussion and have a "Questions and Answers" chat in training you guys a bit on hex-binary manipulation, with specifics to sound of course.

Ziad: My man, your compliments are always so appreciated (like everyone else's !!!).

As far as your question goes, the way it works in SND files is sounds are loaded in BLOCKS, rather than BANKS. What that means is rather than load sound by sound, into each bank of the keyboard (like msot keyboards do), the X1 will take a whole bunch of sounds, group them together, and load them into a specific area of memory in the keyboard's RAM (starting at some address). Because of this, you MUST fill up all the addresses in memory (RAM) that the keyboard is expecting from the header information stored in the first SND file. And since I have not yet broken down that part of the SND format, I would NOT be able to do any splitting of any sounds for you! Now, I can easily wipe out any sounds you don't want, but that area in memory would still be used and inaccessable for other sounds.

In any case, I will be more than happy and wanting to chat with you as well! I should be online (AOL, MSN, and Yahoo) sometime after 7:00 today (EST). :-)

-AB

Ziad, thanks for the kind words, the kids say hello to you too.

aboud, i'll try to catch you tonight before i go to the night club where i'll have a gig.Le me ask you this thought, it came to my mind that with the knowledge that you have regarding sysex you should be able to build quarter note boxes fo some keybords, right?

Eddy,

I believe so .... Do you think there would be enough of a demand?

To be honest, I believe I could probably put together any type of box that could do *anything* for you (not just quarter-tones), keyboard wise, as long as your sysex supports it!

-AB

Hi!!!

Well Abu el Abeeed if i have understand you good,you have fixed one problem...

I explain what i understand from you,thats when loading the 16SND files,you cn remove say example that i dont want kanun sounds,you can remove it,but we cant load a sample instead......That means that we got one problem left,and that is to have a sample instead....

But now i have a new question,you say that you can remove one sound,but can you put one sound from the 8SND instead off the sound you removed from the 16SND???

well the best thing is that i forget the hole thing about "binary and hex" cause thats digital technic,like the digital grinds,1 and 0,and i was not good in school....

But Aboud i really want to know whats this all about...

And about my "compliments" well its not empty words,cause its really nice to have all the "habayeb" here....And thanks for answer the questions....

Eddy,did you like my T3 sounds???
If anybody wants my T3 sounds just say it,and you have it.....

/Zico

Dear Aboud,
Since you�re a software wiz, you may understand this better than me:
Here are couple of web sites that have information about the *.SND source code.
I am not too sure if it contains any useful information but there is couple of utilities that you can download for free. http://oss.sgi.com/projects/audiofile/ http://www.spies.com/~franke/SoundApp/formats.html#system7

Please take a look into it and let us know�

Thanks


Maged

Aboud you said


If you can do that,take for example the kurzweil, built a box for it and i promise to get you millions of customers....well maybe a little bit less, but seriousely i think your name will be posted in the gueniss boock(is that how it's spelled).

Abou el zouz
I might have some sort of a solution to your war with the 16MB SND file, i'll email you regarding that, as for the at3 sounds, i didn't check them yet, i've been very buisy programming my Roland XV-5080 and i din't want to disconnected from my midi interface till i get done with it.

Eddy

Maged,

The SND file references you have sent me on those links are refering to a different type of format. Macintosh, also uses the SND extension for sounds files. However, the actual content differs COMPLETELY from that of the SND file of an X1. Its only an external, 3 letter label, but, like everything else in life, it's on the inside is what counts!!!


-Aboud

You go away for a few hours and you miss alot!!! WOWWWW

ABOUD....I will be your loyal student for as long as it takes to teach me this stuff....I stand right next to EDDY in saying I am very interested.

I always like the saying "teach me how to fish rather than feed me" or something like that

T3 sounds, quarter tones....what next guys?

Alright Aboud,
As I said, you know better. I am near positive that you�ll get somewhere if you keep on trying�

Maged

Aboud,
From what I understand, the SND file bank contains some *INGREDIENTS* in it, which means every *.SND file has few sounds in it. I think this is the same way more or less WINZIP works, you can zip many Wave files together and have a final big file with *.zip extension.
Some other computer wizard here in this forum was able to do something similar for the Korg keyboards: http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/004135.html

If we can do such a program it will be very beneficial for most of us because it will allow us to make our very own FINAL oriental sound bank using a mix of different banks.

I hope you succeed to do it some day�

Maged

Maged,

Thank you for the info man! I am going to look at this link.

As far as what you said, you are absolutly right about how the SND files work. They are all grouped together as one big file (much like a ZIP file). I have decomposed most of the SND file type into the WAVs that represent the actual samples.

But the only thing holding me back from putting a SND file together is the, *OTHER*, (ie,, header) informatation stored in the intiial SND file. That is where inofmration such as BANK location, sample size, sample key/pitch, loop point, etc ... is stored. Without bieng able to modify that, I wouldn't be able to put in any of your own custom WAVs into a SND file.

However, you (and everyone else here) might be glad to know that I have decided to work on some software that will be a universal converter for all sample types (KORG, GEM, KETRON, etc ..) into WAVs, and eventually, into each other. This may take some time in development, but the end-product will be some professionaly written software that will make everyone who ever owned a sampling keyboard crave for. I cannot tell you much more than this so far, since everyone will be e-mailing me wanting a copy ASAP. But I will defnitly keep everyone on this forum updated on what the deal is.

For now however, I will be glad to change anyone's samples into WAV file (from any instrument) if you e-mail me. So feel free to pass this word around!

-AB

Thanks AB, sounds very very promising !!

Aboud we will soon nominate you to be head and chief of our Oriental Tribe....

We will make a ceremony were we grill a couple of ketron, Korg, Gem products in your honor as a sacrifice then we will sing hulu hulu hula hela and dance around those cooking keyboards while you set at the head of the circle playing what ever keyboard u want

LOLOLOLOLOL !!!

You guys are too much, wallah !!!!

You know something, all this in support of what I am trying to do just makes me want to finish the job even quicker to make everyone the happiest can be! I am so glad I have such a big group of strong supporters here! You guys ROCK !!!!

-AB

P.S - If we do indulge in such an activity in the future, may I recommend we sacrifice any keyboard that doesn't support sample-loading, because by then, if the software works, we wouldn't need such filthy instruments !

[This message has been edited by Mosiqaar (edited 08-28-2002).]

LOLOLOLOLOL !!!!!!

All I have to say is wow, thats some scary looking people. So which one respresents me, and who respresent the others (if this is supposed to be the tribal ceremony!!!)

-AB

I will let someone else do the picking and resemblence