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#303440 - 01/20/04 01:44 PM VA7 Single finger chord facility?
Peter Lowden Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 367
Loc: England
Does the Roland VA7 recognize single finger chording in the same manner the Technics and Yamaha keyboards do?

Many thanks in advance for any help

Peter

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#303441 - 02/05/04 11:20 AM Re: VA7 Single finger chord facility?
rolandfan Offline
Member

Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 918
Loc: South Africa
what manner would that be ? Arent they all the same ?

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#303442 - 02/05/04 11:24 AM Re: VA7 Single finger chord facility?
Peter Lowden Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 367
Loc: England
Unfortunately not

Technics Yamaha Korg Wersi and Gem all use the same.

I've learnt since that Roland use a somewhat unauthodox method.

Kind regards

Peter

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#303443 - 02/05/04 01:20 PM Re: VA7 Single finger chord facility?
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 11205
Loc: Philadelphia Pa, USA
Actually, I believe that Roland and Korg are more mucially correct than Yamaha and Technics. For example:
In simple, one finger mode (Roland) a single note gives you a major chord of the same name.
eg: "G" = G maj chord
Apply your musical theory and know that to make a minor chord you need to flatten the third degree of the chord ("B" in this case)
so play:
"G" and "Bb" and get the G min chord.

Who ever decided that playing ANY black note to the left of a tonic, makes musical sense was drinking on the job, I think!
It is much more logical to use correct musical theory when forming chords ... even in the simple fashion.

C + Eb = C Min(Roland/Korg)
C + Eb = Eb7 (Technics/Yamaha)
Sorry, but that's just goofy.

All major makers seem to act the same if 3 notes are used at a time, but it's this one and two finger approach that differs from brand to brand. Just like the "interpretation" of what FULL size piano keys are. Roland , Technics & Korg have it right .... Yamaha is making a fashion statement like the Cooper Mini car. Smaller is better, they think.

I disagree.
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#303444 - 02/05/04 11:07 PM Re: VA7 Single finger chord facility?
Peter Lowden Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 367
Loc: England
Thanks Uncle Dave for your comments,


Since posting my original enquiry on the forum, i've actually written and emailed and had replies from all the Keyboard Manufacturers we mention in this discussion, some have kindly provided charts taken from the owners manual, as did the Tech dept at Roland UK. The chart sent to me by Korg Tech Dept, and taken from the VA7 Owners manual quite clearly indicates that a lot of the single fingered chord positions are the same as Technics, Yamaha, Wersi, Gem,
but many are not it's this mixture of not following a certain pattern throughout the whole range that leads to what I refer to an "unorthodox method

The conclusion is this (not from me but from Roland UK): Roland UK Tech dept have been trying for some time to get their single fingered chord recognition sequence the same as all the other leading brands of keyboard
manufacturers, they also understand that they loose custom because of the difference their instruments have with regard single fingered chord recognition and are trying to get this matter adressed with Roland central office.

Most of the dealers I have spoke to over the last few weeks are also aware of the Rolands difference in approach to Single F C.

If anyone buys a Roland keyboard and intends to use just the single fingered chord feature for playing, and have been used to Yamaha, Korg, Technics, Wersi, or Gem instruments, then believe me you are in for a shock.

Not my words but ROLAND UK TECH DEPT

Sorry Dave but I have to disagree with most of what you say, could cause a lot of problems for people buying a Roland instrument for the first time and who use solely the SFC feature.

All the best

Peter

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#303445 - 02/08/04 03:01 AM Re: VA7 Single finger chord facility?
Burkels Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 319
Loc: Alkmaar, The Netherlands, Euro...
Quote:
Originally posted by Peter Lowden:
If anyone buys a Roland keyboard and intends to use just the single fingered chord feature for playing, and have been used to Yamaha, Korg, Technics, Wersi, or Gem instruments, then believe me you are in for a shock.
Not my words but ROLAND UK TECH DEPT

Utter nonsens, imho. That techguy obviously wasn't aware of the way new Roland boards handle the SFC function. Using the ARR SET parameter in the board setup you can define what method you wish to use.
MD1 (the original Roland-method) or
MD2 (which will follow the method used by all those other manufacturers) or
OFF so you'll have to play the entire chord on the arranger. But I guess that's something for true musicians... :-/

Quote:
Sorry Dave but I have to disagree with most of what you say, could cause a lot of problems for people buying a Roland instrument for the first time and who use solely the SFC feature.

Just because you buy a arranger board that can practically play everything -for- you, does not mean it will hurt you to learn the basics about chords. Dave is absolutely right here. The original Roland/Korg approach is right, the others are making it -too- simple. You plan to make MUSIC, right? Not just operate a automated music machine?
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#303446 - 02/08/04 03:42 AM Re: VA7 Single finger chord facility?
Peter Lowden Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 367
Loc: England
I note your comments Burkels.

MD1 (the original Roland-method) or
MD2 (which will follow the method used by all those other manufacturers)

This does acknowledge what i've been saying thank you, that "Roland use a different single fingered chord recognition than the other manufacturers. The Tech dept nor anyone else i've spoken to has even hinted at there being another SFC setting. In fact if this was the case I would now be the proud owner of a Roland Keyboard.

Whilst not dismissing what you're saying out of hand I feel the more qualified to answer the problem would be Roland Tech dept and that for me is where i've gone for the answers. I feel i've gone to the top and if they say "the SFC function is different from all the other manufacturers, along with every dealer i've spoken to then that's good enough for me. In any case when a dealer tells you a Keyboard is not using familiar features and advises you to not buy a Roland instrument unless you're prepared to learn a new SFC system, then that also is good enough advice for me. It would pose the same sort of problems if you bought a car that had the clutch and accelerator in different positions than every other car.

Please note i'm not (nor have ever been) interested in the rights or wrongs musically of using the single fingered chord facility or if the SFC positions are musically correct. Please remain focused on the question, and that was "if Roland uses the same SFC positions as the other leading manufacturers", and the answer from Dealers and Roland themselves is "NO ROLANDS SYSTEM IS DIFFERENT"

If you still disagree so be it but that's what Roland UK inform prople.

Kind regards

Peter

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#303447 - 02/08/04 04:01 AM Re: VA7 Single finger chord facility?
Burkels Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 319
Loc: Alkmaar, The Netherlands, Euro...
Quote:
Originally posted by Peter Lowden:
Whilst not dismissing what you're saying out of hand I feel the more qualified to answer the problem would be Roland Tech dept and that for me is where i've gone for the answers. I feel i've gone to the top and if they say "the SFC function is different from all the other manufacturers, along with every dealer i've spoken to then that's good enough for me. (...) and the answer from Dealers and Roland themselves is "NO ROLANDS SYSTEM IS DIFFERENT" If you still disagree so be it but that's what Roland UK inform prople.


You lost me here. I have here a Roland EXR-5 keyboard that allows me to set the SFC to Roland/Korg standards OR the settings YOU wish to have. It's a Roland. It works that way. I have it here. I told you.

But since someone at Roland (who obviously didn't know what he was talking about) and a dealer (who obviously did not know what he was talking about either) told you that what I say is not true, you state that I talk nonsense?

I'll think twice next time before I try to be of help in a thread here. I don't like being called a liar.
_________________________
- THE DUTCH KEYBOARD FORUM
http://www.keyboardforum.nl
Happy owner of a Roland E-80 V2

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#303448 - 02/08/04 06:59 AM Re: VA7 Single finger chord facility?
Peter Lowden Offline
Member

Registered: 09/29/03
Posts: 367
Loc: England
Now hang on Burkels, simmer down, NO one is calling anybody anything!!

Like I say i'm not going to dismiss what you've been saying, it just differs from what i'm being told elsewhere, nothing more, nothing less.

To show my open mindedness on this subject and the fact that i'd still like to own a Roland VA7, perhaps you'd be agreeable to email me the page from within the owners manual, where it says about Single Fingered Chord settings.

I've also got a printout chart that I put together sometime ago, that I emailed to Roland, Korg Wersi etc.
The printout contains all the single fingered chord positions for Yamaha and Technics keyboards. Again if you're agreeable I could email you this and you can check them, just as Roland UK have done.

My email address is:

peterloudon@wight365.net

PS Let's start again, i'd like to get to the bottom of this.

Kind regards

Peter

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#303449 - 02/08/04 08:50 AM Re: VA7 Single finger chord facility?
Graham UK Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/20/01
Posts: 1832
Loc: Lincolnshire UK
A number of Single Fingered Chords require up to 3 fingers. Its very little more effort learn the correct way using Fingered Chords.
Single F C playing is limited to the types of chords possible to play. Once anyone has mastered full fingered chords they will get so much more enjoyment from their playing.

Dave is correct because playing single fingered chords the Roland way...you are automatically part way to learning how to play fingered chords.

Graham UK.

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