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#294065 - 09/23/10 01:58 PM Re: Tyros 4 Exclusive
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Thing is, you ONLY 'play to your crowd', you never grow the brand.

What astonishes me is the resistance to expanding into a market that certainly doesn't LOSE money for Korg and Ketron, and certainly makes money for Yamaha (if I hear that lame excuse that a DGX is a piano with an arranger tacked on one more time, all the while ignoring it is functionally identical to any other 76 or 88 arranger with a piano sound on board, I'm going to to lose it!)...

Once you see the fallacy in the excuses, you are simply left with an unresponsive, timid corporation, too scared to try to open up possibilities for many musicians that HAVE to go elsewhere, right now. And, behind the excusism lies an undeniable fact... adding a 76 to the Tyros and PSR lines is not going to HURT their current customer base. No-one is suggesting that Yamaha STOP making what is already successful for them. The resistance to this idea seems steeped in fear and mistrust, as if ADDING to their diversity would somehow HARM Yamaha. No-one wants that, me included.

No-one has yet, to my satisfaction, PROVED that adding a 76 to the Tyros and PSR lines would lose Yamaha money. And, if it doesn't do that, what possible harm could come from making it? Only their competitors should fear this happening, but right now, they get a free pass and unfettered access to a market that scavenges Yamaha's own sales... After all, should any PSR of Tyros player decide they want a larger keyboard size, they have no CHOICE but to migrate to another manufacturer. There's enough demand for these things that Yamaha make several already (but refuse to acknowledge that they ARE arrangers, as if putting the word 'Piano' on them makes them so!), but anyone wanting to go to a larger Yamaha keyboard from a Tyros or PSR has to make a HUGE backward step in sound and capability.

So they move over to Korg or Ketron (or pick up a good used G70) and Yamaha loses out COMPLETELY.

When such a gaping hole exists in Yamaha's product lineup that other companies exploit and remain profitable, I'm afraid no-one can persuade me that Yamaha are making the right decision. And, once again, I reiterate that, should Yamaha ever correct this mistake, those now baying loudest that NOT making them is EXACTLY the right thing for Yamaha to do will be baying as loudly that they are the greatest thing since sliced bread, and OF COURSE Yamaha should make them!

And if that isn't dog-like devotion, I don't know what is...

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 09-23-2010).]

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#294066 - 09/23/10 02:19 PM Re: Tyros 4 Exclusive
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Kingfrog:
Do not expect a 76 key Tyros.....Not gonna happen. Seems to me Yamaha is not going after or feels threatened at all by Roland or Korg or any other Arranger maker. They play to their crowd and most do not want a 76 keyboard in the Tyros by a long margin.


Yamaha does research and apparently surveys current owners as to what they want and provides what they can. They seem to peruse the YAMAHA owners forums, nothing is arbitrary. They apparently do not poll Korg or Roland users as to what "would make them consider a Tyros?" Their OWN market is more important to them and primarily the HOME user who does not want a CVP and those who play out that want a light smaller keyboard that can cover a lot of bases. They don't seem to care about sounding like a "live" band. People in their homes don't know or care what a live band sounds like. They want to hear CD like quality. Those who do play out play to an older crowd who don't care about drums....They listen the whole.



Spot on, KF...well said.

Excellent post...you know the business, it's easy to see.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#294067 - 09/24/10 07:12 AM Re: Tyros 4 Exclusive
to the genesys Offline
Member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 1155
Yamaha including an XLR input on the T4 only proves that Yamaha can do something that a part of the market wants. Did not their market research tell them that a 1/4 imput was good and no XLR is needed? But because a part of the market said the wanted XLR the made the T4 with XLR and it does not affect those who did not want XLR. Same thing with 76 keys part of the market say they want 76 keys and they could do the same thing with 76 keys. And, the foolishness about there not being a market for 76 keys, remember Yamaha currently makes 76 keys arrangers, they made the PSR 9000 pro and Roland, Korg, Ketron all make 76 keys arrangers. And I still think that is is bad business for a Yamaha representative to say he does not want a significant part of the arranger market. For one, it is bad PR.

------------------
I have shortened my ID to TTG
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TTG

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#294068 - 09/24/10 07:38 AM Re: Tyros 4 Exclusive
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 14302
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
For some strange reason, I've never had the burning desire to play a 76-key arranger keyboard. I, personally, have always been comfortable with 61 keys. Maybe it's just me. Maybe I'm easier to satisfy.

Guess that's probably the case with every other player I know in my area. They're all using 61-keys too. No one seems to complain about a lack of keys other than a handful of individuals on this forum.

So, you have to wonder. If those complaining about Yamaha not having more keys on their PSR or Tyros series really, deep-down, wish they would have purchased a Yamaha? Are they just using the 76-key issue as an excuse for purchasing their current brand? Are they closeted Yamaha users, lurking behind other brand names but secretly playing Yamaha?

Of course I'm only being facetious, mainly to point out how silly all of this really is. This discussion has been going on for nearly as long as I've been here, nothing has changed and nothing is likely to change. Everyone has expressed their PERSONAL viewpoint on the 76 V/S 61 issue in nearly every post, and guess what--no one has ever benefited from all this bickering and bantering. NO manufacturer in the world is going to change anything based upon anything ever posted here--it's just not gonna' happen!

I don't know about anyone else here, but when I purchased my Korg, Roland and Yamaha keyboards, I bought them based upon what I heard coming out of the speakers--not the number of keys. The same holds true for the dozen or more sound systems I've owned over the past several decades. I always figured that if I liked what I heard, my audiences would probably like it too. So far, I have not been wrong on this.

I guess some folks will continue to beat this dead horse until their arms fall off, but I sure would like to see this particular issue come to an end. I, for one, would much rather learn about the neat things you discover with the inner-workings of YOUR keyboard, sound systems, mics, etc.. and how those discoveries could benefit other forum members. The posting of this kind of information was the main reason I originally came to the Synthzone--I learned a lot. And, as old as I am I'm still able to learn.

The 76/61 horse is dead!

Gary
_________________________
PSR-S950, Bose L1 Compact, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, Morgan 33 Out Island Sailboat, and lots of other silly stuff!

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#294069 - 09/24/10 10:21 AM Re: Tyros 4 Exclusive
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by to the genesys:
And I still think that is is bad business for a Yamaha representative to say he does not want a significant part of the arranger market. For one, it is bad PR.



Yamaha already has a significant part of the arranger market.

Telling the truth is never bad PR.

Let it rest Genny...it's now old, battered, and, as Gary said above, "The 76/61 horse is dead!"

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#294070 - 09/24/10 12:06 PM Re: Tyros 4 Exclusive
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
One wonders if Yamaha only made 48 note arrangers, and Ian wanted a 61, whether he would be as complacent about Yamaha's timidity in this market segment. But I guess, as long as YOU are satisfied, who gives a sh*t about what many other people want. eh?

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#294071 - 09/24/10 12:45 PM Re: Tyros 4 Exclusive
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Yamaha's timidity in this market segment.


You'll have to banter with the King from now on...

Read the quote again...and try and absorb.

"One of the T4 Engineers from Japan was there. A little language barrier but I was able to bring up the "concerns" of many here (mostly non Yamaha users) Do not expect a 76 key Tyros.....Not gonna happen. Seems to me Yamaha is not going after or feels threatened at all by Roland or Korg or any other Arranger maker. They play to their crowd and most do not want a 76 keyboard in the Tyros by a long margin."
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#294072 - 09/24/10 01:02 PM Re: Tyros 4 Exclusive
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Read it again, Ian...

MOST of the Tyros crowd are happy with a 61... Well, DUH!

If they WEREN'T happy with a 61, they wouldn't BE the 'Tyros crowd'. This is the very definition of a self-fulfilling prophecy. As long as you only poll people happy with 61's, you are ALWAYS going to get a positive response. Kind of like asking motorbike fans whether they would want four wheels!

I have STILL yet to receive ANY explanation why Yamaha are only TOO happy to make 76 and 88 note arrangers, but unwilling to make GOOD ones...

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#294073 - 09/24/10 01:11 PM Re: Tyros 4 Exclusive
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:

I have STILL yet to receive ANY explanation why Yamaha are only TOO happy to make 76 and 88 note arrangers, but unwilling to make GOOD ones...


I sincerely hope you do get an explanation.

I feel so terrible to see you all aflutter.

If it isn't too much trouble, please share the explanation with the rest of us here, who are waiting on tenterhooks.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 09-24-2010).]
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#294074 - 09/24/10 01:13 PM Re: Tyros 4 Exclusive
Dnj Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 39568
Loc: NJ
lets just say Tyros 4 came with and choice 61 or 76.......people would still complain that even though 76 keys the keyfeel, plastic build, etc etc is no good it never ends....,,

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