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#291624 - 08/30/10 03:23 PM Re: Check out this amazing guitar player (Igor Presnyakov)
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Sorry, spalding, but tossing out what someone creative did on one of the world's most expensive WORKSTATIONS is hardly proof that there is anyone even SLIGHTLY interested in creativity on an arranger.
Were you to toss out a couple of names like Rudess (who I adore, by the way) and links to their work on an arranger, I would start to take the tiniest notice of what you have to say. But after YEARS of almost the same apologia for arrangers (VST based or otherwise) with not ONE example of anything creative, I'm sorry, but your argument comes over as mere wishful thinking, rather than based on FACT.

Let's put it this way... My arguments posits that there are no really creative people playing arrangers, and I back it up with the complete dearth of creative arranger music available. YOUR argument posits that the ARE creative people using the arranger, and you back it up with...

NOTHING

BTW, the factory demos for Yamaha are sequenced, NOT arranger play. Just as most manufacturers do. And we've ALL seen just how terrible most live arranger demos are, at even getting a normal, gig-ready performance, let alone something that might pass as 'creative'. If you use an arranger as a basic workstation for a sequencing project, does that somehow make the ARRANGER a 'creative' instrument?

Look at what we all look at and listen to on this forum, lately... guitarists! Singers! Basically, players of REAL instruments with a thousand times the expressive potential of an electronic arranger. Why do we go all ga-ga over these? Because they achieve a level of expressiveness impossible on these limited, sample-based keyboards with negligible sample depth or modulation possibilities.

You can pull more depth of expression and tonal possibilities out of a cheap guitar than you can pull from the best arranger in the world. The same note can be played in a myriad of fashions, no two people playing the same guitar ever make it sound the same, let alone play the same parts on it. But an arranger... Who, on earth, can even make it SOUND different?

Here's the bottom line... sure, you COULD use an arranger as a jumping off point for something utterly unique... But why WOULD you, when doing the same thing on a TOTL WS offers SO MUCH MORE possibilities and capabilities? Who chooses a crippled broken tool to create on, when better tools exist (at lower prices, too)?

Until I HEAR all this wellspring of creativity you THINK exists, I'm afraid I'm going to stick to my opinion...

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#291625 - 08/30/10 05:21 PM Re: Check out this amazing guitar player (Igor Presnyakov)
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40316
Diki thank you for putting down all arranger KB players....I'm sure you gained a few more fans ....NOT!!

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#291627 - 08/30/10 08:49 PM Re: Check out this amazing guitar player (Igor Presnyakov)
Taike Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 2665
Loc: Taiwan-Laos-China
Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:
Diki thank you for putting down all arranger KB players....I'm sure you gained a few more fans ....NOT!!



For telling the truth? Still a FAN, Diki!

Make-believe isn't the real thing and never will be.

Taike

------------------
Bo pen nyang.
_________________________
Those that cry "freedom" often are the oppressors.

Science can't explain everything, but religion can't explain anything.

Those that are free don't have the need to mention it about every 5 minutes.

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#291628 - 08/30/10 09:42 PM Re: Check out this amazing guitar player (Igor Presnyakov)
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40316
Quote:
Originally posted by Taike:

For telling the truth? Still a FAN, Diki!

Make-believe isn't the real thing and never will be.

Taike



truth? hahahahahah...you guys all belong together....enjoy each other another
Hi-Jacking well done!



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 08-30-2010).]

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#291629 - 08/30/10 10:08 PM Re: Check out this amazing guitar player (Igor Presnyakov)
Taike Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 2665
Loc: Taiwan-Laos-China
Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:
Wipe off your nose you have brown on it!


Feel like a big boy now, perdente?

By the way, you really should learn English.
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/The-Poc...e/9781440692253

Wang ba dan!



------------------
Bo pen nyang.
_________________________
Those that cry "freedom" often are the oppressors.

Science can't explain everything, but religion can't explain anything.

Those that are free don't have the need to mention it about every 5 minutes.

Top
#291630 - 08/30/10 10:27 PM Re: Check out this amazing guitar player (Igor Presnyakov)
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40316
Quote:
Originally posted by Taike:
Feel like a big boy now, perdente?

By the way, you really should learn English.
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/The-Poc...e/9781440692253

Wang ba dan!


Don't like the truth?

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#291631 - 08/30/10 10:39 PM Re: Check out this amazing guitar player (Igor Presnyakov)
Taike Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 2665
Loc: Taiwan-Laos-China
Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:
Don't like the truth?


That your English sucks?

By the way, you shouldn't delete your posts. I know it's an addiction of yours but it's so unbecoming on a forum.

Now leave me alone.

------------------
Bo pen nyang.
_________________________
Those that cry "freedom" often are the oppressors.

Science can't explain everything, but religion can't explain anything.

Those that are free don't have the need to mention it about every 5 minutes.

Top
#291632 - 08/30/10 10:50 PM Re: Check out this amazing guitar player (Igor Presnyakov)
spalding1968 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1232
Loc: United Kingdom
fellas we can disagree without fighting. They say necessity is the mother of invention. When someone aqcuires an arranger keyboard and uses it as their sole instrument (possibly because they cannot afford to trade up ) then you will see what can be done with an arranger.

Right now you think like wealthy westerners who can and do change keyboards at the drop of a hat and who have access at a whim to any musical instruments you want. Not everyone is like that . My point is theorectical because most of you dont hold onto your instrument even long enough to explore the possibilities. But if you had no choice then you would see what i see.

and Diki so that you dont miss the point again . I said before 'All it needs is someone to genuinely get under the hood and discover how its unique features could be utilised in modern music. But it wont happen anytime soon because the people that own arrangers change them everytime a new one comes out every 2-3 years never appreciating what they had or fully understanding what could have been done with their existing keyboard. '

If you did not have th choice you curently have , you would understand my point.

Anyway i will leave it at that. A closed mind is such a waste.

[This message has been edited by spalding1968 (edited 08-30-2010).]

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#291633 - 08/30/10 10:52 PM Re: Check out this amazing guitar player (Igor Presnyakov)
FAEbGBD Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 847
Loc: Nashvville TN
Let's see, this thread was about guitar. Then, someone posted this:

Although all these people are surly great guitar players for a reason in the own right and should be appreciated as such....But, being a professional arranger
Kb artist myself...I'd really prefer watching GREAT Arranger KB players so I can absorb and learn from them.....anyone want to post some?

That is what started the discussion of "Great Arranger" players. Who posted that? Could it be the same person who now speaks about this thread being hijacked?

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#291634 - 08/31/10 07:06 AM Re: Check out this amazing guitar player (Igor Presnyakov)
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40316
Quote:
Originally posted by Taike:
That your English sucks?

By the way, you shouldn't delete your posts. I know it's an addiction of yours but it's so unbecoming on a forum.

Now leave me alone.



.


[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 08-31-2010).]

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