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#291614 - 08/29/10 04:17 PM Re: Check out this amazing guitar player (Igor Presnyakov)
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Let me be a little clearer, then... when you play an instrument that 99% of what the audience hears is NOT YOU....

What kind of heart can you put into that remaining 1%?

Having to play with an ignoramus robot will suck the life out of you every time. There is so little, if ANY inspiring arranger music because the backings themselves lack inspiration. This is why there's such a move towards audio playing arrangers. Obviously, MIDI playing arrangers have hit their limits, at least as far as what the manufacturers are WILLING to put in them (I still believe there is HUGE room for improvement without going to audio, but no manufacturer is taking it seriously). Sadly, of course, while the audio playing arranger SOUNDS better, it lacks any flexibility at all, and any ease of customizing the styles to suit you (a loop is a loop, is a loop), and, to be honest, STILL doesn't really address the issue of intelligent wrap-around, or voice leading or just plain robot stupidity.

And, sorry, but if there WERE anything going on creatively in the arranger world, we would have all heard it by now. You can try to lecture me all you want, spalding, but you have to provide at least SOME example to make your position. Or you can as easily take the position that banging two rocks together could be CALLED 'creative'... but no-one wants to listen to it! Perhaps you can explain, if it is ENTIRELY in the hands of the player, why NO creative musician plays an arranger..?

Personally, I believe that any creative musician wants to work with OTHER creative musicians, not a robot.

You may feel differently, though....

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#291615 - 08/29/10 06:31 PM Re: Check out this amazing guitar player (Igor Presnyakov)
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 14533
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
You may feel differently, though....


YEP! I totally disagree.

Good to see you posting again,

Gary
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PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

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#291616 - 08/29/10 06:49 PM Re: Check out this amazing guitar player (Igor Presnyakov)
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40824
Quote:
Originally posted by travlin'easy:
[b]YEP! I totally disagree.

Good to see you posting again,

Gary

[/B]


I agree Gary.........don't let the so called purists get to you...just bahahahahahaha all teh way to the bank

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#291617 - 08/29/10 09:53 PM Re: Check out this amazing guitar player (Igor Presnyakov)
Taike Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 2665
Loc: Taiwan-Laos-China
There are always those that disagree just because they hold a grudge...

Diki makes some very good points and a lot of sense.

Let me see (hear) how expressive or creative one can be playing along a style vs. a drummer.

Now who said that playing a B3 is boring because it's always the same? And playing along a style is not always the same?

Thank goodness it's the purists that keep on making good music. Thank goodness it's the purists that play and explore instruments in ways never though possible or imaginable. If that's not being creative than what is? Thank goodness that to a purist it's all about music first. Purists have probably the most loyal fans one can wish for.

So where's the Jimmy Smith or Tommy Emmanuel of the arranger keyboard?

Diki, I'm glad you're back. At least I mean it.

Taike

------------------
Bo pen nyang.

[This message has been edited by Taike (edited 08-29-2010).]
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Those that cry "freedom" often are the oppressors.

Science can't explain everything, but religion can't explain anything.

Those that are free don't have the need to mention it about every 5 minutes.

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#291618 - 08/29/10 10:28 PM Re: Check out this amazing guitar player (Igor Presnyakov)
Nigel Offline
Admin

Registered: 06/01/98
Posts: 6202
Loc: Ventura CA USA
Quote:
Originally posted by captain Russ:
You're probably right...I don't really collect or know steel string acoustics like I do others. Talked to Tommy Emmanuel when he was here last year, and he played a little known guitar made in his homeland.
Russ


Was it a Maton Russ? They have been making both electric and acoustic guitars in Australia for many many years.

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#291619 - 08/29/10 10:57 PM Re: Check out this amazing guitar player (Igor Presnyakov)
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40824
Quote:
Originally posted by Nigel:
Was it a Maton Russ? They have been making both electric and acoustic guitars in Australia for many many years.

http://www.maton.com.au/

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#291620 - 08/30/10 02:45 AM Re: Check out this amazing guitar player (Igor Presnyakov)
spalding1968 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1233
Loc: United Kingdom
sorry double post



[This message has been edited by spalding1968 (edited 08-30-2010).]

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#291621 - 08/30/10 02:59 AM Re: Check out this amazing guitar player (Igor Presnyakov)
spalding1968 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1233
Loc: United Kingdom
[QUOTE]Originally posted by spalding1968:
[B]as usual Diki you miss the point completely.

Just as an example . Jordan Rudess has a korg oasys keyboard. The manufacturer put on it stock sounds and arpegiators for everyone to use as thy choose. But do most players use the Oasys the way he does ? He uses the instrument in an almost completly inovative way configuring the keyboard to trigger samples as he plays complex left and right hand melodies . He samples his own sounds and creates patterns that accompany the songs he plays. The sounds that he has been given in the intrument are just the basic palet that he then tears apart and reconstructs to his tastes .

If you or anyone were to think outside of the suggestions that the manufacturer has given in terms of the basic pallet of styles and sounds and chord variations provided on an arranger keyboard and actually spend 6-8 hours a day playing the instrument and exploring how you could apply the technology musically and being creative with the registrations and live performance tools available to you , perhaps even programming your own styles on the instrument you could not fail become expert and indeed a virtuoso on an arranger keyboard or any other electronic instrument.

You confuse the reality of what is now with what could be ! Before the finger style playing of the guitar that has emerged over the last 30 years or so musicians did not imagine that a simple guitar could be used the way it is being used now . But some musicians who just could not and would not be limited by what they saw and heard from other people and had a hunger for more developed inovative and ceatives ways to make that instrument produce new sounds and new ways of creating sound in a musical and skilled way. i gaurantee you that in another 30 years someone else will develope another technique or style on the same guitar. What i am saying is that i foresee some musician who gets a hold of an arranger and who sees the potential of the instrument and is willing to commit to the instrument will do stuff with it that both you and i and even the manufacture did not foresee .

The people demonstrating arrangers and playing them currently for their own reasons work within the suggestions given to them from the manufacturers but thats not because of the limitations of the instrument.
http://www.piens.com/movies.

Click on the Tyros 3 demo and imagine what you could do with an arranger if you opened your mind.

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#291622 - 08/30/10 06:23 AM Re: Check out this amazing guitar player (Igor Presnyakov)
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 4905
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Hi Spalding
The question you have to ask is;
Why would anyone bother to get stuck into a pre-set instrument with limited capabilities, (Effectively what an Arranger Keyboard is) when there are Workstations and other instruments out there that will allow them to do a 1000 times more than the typical Arranger, with only a fraction of the effort.
The answer is;
They wouldnt

As I have said previously, the Arranger keyboard was designed solely for the Home Hobby player, (An Arranger keyboard is just a spin off from the easy play organs of the 70s & 80s) who has little time to practice, but enjoys pressing a few buttons to transport themselves into another world, so as to get away from all the stresses in life. (Going in-depth is the last thing on their minds)

Yamaha is the leader here, for the simple reason its easy to operate, and has a massive style and pre-set database. (Whatever you want to play, the chances are there is a style/Pre-set already out there)

As I said before, you may not like the above, but those I am afraid are the facts.
Regards

Bill
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English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#291623 - 08/30/10 07:05 AM Re: Check out this amazing guitar player (Igor Presnyakov)
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40824
Igor Presnyakov is really good eh?

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