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#291592 - 08/27/10 10:49 AM Re: Check out this amazing guitar player (Igor Presnyakov)
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 5753
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
A guitar is a musical instrument. An arranger is a semi-automatic jukebox, conceived and produced solely for the purpose of allowing non-accomplished home players to enjoy the process of (believing that they are) making music. Arranger KB's will NEVER, EVER be accepted by the music community (professional and educational) as a legitimate musical instrument. Like it or not, those are the facts. No matter how bellicose, belligerent, and defensive it's fan base gets, those facts are never going to change. Of course, that's assuming it's being used for it's design purpose. A Steinway Grand looks great in the 'parlor', but it's design purpose is not to be a piece of furniture, but a musical instrument.

I think those arranger players on this board who are truly proficient on 'legitimate' (traditional) instruments (piano, organ, guitar, violin, juice harp, etc.), will agree. Of course, none of this invalidates it's use in a OMB act whose primary focus is entertaining....by any means necessary. In fact, depending on your audience, it may be the best choice. But calling a professional quality musical performance on a beautiful and challenging musical instrument "BORING' while championing the 'artistry' of a bunch of canned styles created by someone other than the performing 'artist', is just plain .....well, you fill in the blank.

JMO.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#291593 - 08/27/10 11:23 AM Re: Check out this amazing guitar player (Igor Presnyakov)
Taike Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 2665
Loc: Taiwan-Laos-China
I'm with Chas on this one. Actually I said pretty much the same but in less words.

Taike

------------------
Bo pen nyang.
_________________________
Those that cry "freedom" often are the oppressors.

Science can't explain everything, but religion can't explain anything.

Those that are free don't have the need to mention it about every 5 minutes.

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#291594 - 08/27/10 01:11 PM Re: Check out this amazing guitar player (Igor Presnyakov)
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40449
Quote:
Originally posted by cgiles:
A guitar is a musical instrument. An arranger is a semi-automatic jukebox, conceived and produced solely for the purpose of allowing non-accomplished home players to enjoy the process of (believing that they are) making music. Arranger KB's will NEVER, EVER be accepted by the music community (professional and educational) as a legitimate musical instrument. Like it or not, those are the facts. No matter how bellicose, belligerent, and defensive it's fan base gets, those facts are never going to change. Of course, that's assuming it's being used for it's design purpose. A Steinway Grand looks great in the 'parlor', but it's design purpose is not to be a piece of furniture, but a musical instrument.

I think those arranger players on this board who are truly proficient on 'legitimate' (traditional) instruments (piano, organ, guitar, violin, juice harp, etc.), will agree. Of course, none of this invalidates it's use in a OMB act whose primary focus is entertaining....by any means necessary. In fact, depending on your audience, it may be the best choice. But calling a professional quality musical performance on a beautiful and challenging musical instrument "BORING' while championing the 'artistry' of a bunch of canned styles created by someone other than the performing 'artist', is just plain .....well, you fill in the blank.

JMO.

chas


wow you finally woke up and post again and the ego purist attitude shines right thru...Bravo!!! nothing changes! btw what does all this have to do with
Igor Presnyakov?



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 08-27-2010).]

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#291596 - 08/27/10 02:08 PM Re: Check out this amazing guitar player (Igor Presnyakov)
captain Russ Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 6768
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
Sorry, but I neglected to say that Don was an enjoyable player I would go listen to.


Thanks for the post.


R.

Actually, I just went back and listened to 5 or 6 of Don's Youtube pieces. Alternative tunings are cool, difficult and interesting.

Don is under-appreciated. He is an alternative tunings specialist, with lots of talent...certainly one who deserves recognition and appreciation. Only thing is, I can't interpret what he's doing, since I'm not always familiar with the tuning he's using. Whatever tuning(s) he uses, he really knows what he's doing.

Thanks for pointing him out.

[This message has been edited by captain Russ (edited 08-27-2010).]

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#291597 - 08/27/10 02:36 PM Re: Check out this amazing guitar player (Igor Presnyakov)
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 5753
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Dnj:

btw what does all this have to do with
Igor Presnyakov?


Everything. I was contrasting a guy who can actually play to your average half-assed singer who accompanies himself all night playing three-finger chords on an arranger, all in the key of C, and imagines himself a "pro". Also, I'd think you'd be the very LAST person on earth to bring up the subject of ego. In fact, there should be some kind of law, whereby your ego is not allowed to grow beyond your playing ability.

Here's my take. Musicians are usually looking for qualities in their instrument like 'sweetness of tone', character, playability; things that allow you to play MORE, while most (BUT NOT ALL) arranger players are usually looking for more and more 'features' that allow them to play LESS (sequencers, dual MP3 players, vocalizers (so even their singing can't be recognized), arpeggiators, loopers, and the list goes on. Here's another clue. Many arranger players profess to prefer playing alone as opposed to with other musicians. Hardly any musician feels that way. There may be economic considerations but as a pure preference..........no way.

The truth may be unpopular, but it is what it is.

"There is none so blind as he that WILL not see" (SOMETIMES the Bible is right).

Your BFF,

chas

Oh, and BBBB, I don't consider Rory an arranger player, but a very talented musician who likes to play around with one. I've heard a number of his tracks, including video, and I don't recall any of them featuring an arranger. Wonder why? Heck, if he would only use an arranger, he could probably sound almost as good as ......Donny.
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#291598 - 08/27/10 02:58 PM Re: Check out this amazing guitar player (Igor Presnyakov)
Beakybird Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/27/01
Posts: 2154
I watched a couple of clips of Tommy Emmanuel. That was the most amazing acoustic guitar I have heard.

Most ultra-virtuosos play stuff where the main attraction is that it is hard to do, but it doesn't necessarily sound good. This Tommy Emanuel sounds fantastic, and what he does is mind boggling. Simply unbelievable. And you can see that he's having a blast. He plays with a lot of soul as well as finger dexterity.

The guy this thread is about is very pleasant sounding. He is in the upper 1/10 of 1% of guitar players, but that Tommy Emanuel is one in 10 million.

Beakybird

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#291600 - 08/27/10 04:06 PM Re: Check out this amazing guitar player (Igor Presnyakov)
trident Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/22/04
Posts: 1457
Loc: Athens, Greece
As usual the thread went South, but this actually is a good thing, and I think now I can understand what you all mean, in terms of where your main interest in music comes from.

I certainly like arrangers because they can do what I can't, play strums/drums/bass/etc for me, but....

I really don't think that pushing some fill/OTS/patch change/vocalizer buttons in the right moment constitutes something more than mere "technical" skill (on lack of a better term), as opposed to musical skill.

On the other hand, what you play/sing/communicate to the audience when you are NOT pressing flashing buttons, is purely musical skill, and that can be as mediocre as mine, or in the same level as the one exhibited in the videos posted above.

See for example Michel Voncken, in this old video, demonstrating Tyros 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXeE2YZL8sE&p=131815C54A394153&playnext=1&index=79 especially in the songs beginning at 2:15 and 6:15 respectively.

I can easily learn to press the flashing buttons in the correct time and order, but actually playing the music even with half his skill is out of the question. This guy can also probably play the lone Steinway very well, thank you, which I can't, even if my life depended on it.

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#291601 - 08/27/10 09:13 PM Re: Check out this amazing guitar player (Igor Presnyakov)
FAEbGBD Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 847
Loc: Nashvville TN
I have never played a gig on an arranger. I've never set up one registration. I pick a style, pick a right hand instrument, and play. Only for fun. I thought when I bought it I might use it more than I have, but it just didn't end up fitting into what I do. It's fun to have around, and does come in handy for rehearsals when I need to go over something and can just sit down to a keyboard with built in speakers and not have to hook anything up.
Actually when I first joined SZ I mostly visited the Roland JVXP and Fantom pages, as that's what I use and needed some help with. Then, when I decided I wanted to buy an arranger I came over here and noticed that this is where all the character resides.

Rory

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#291602 - 08/27/10 10:53 PM Re: Check out this amazing guitar player (Igor Presnyakov)
spalding1968 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1232
Loc: United Kingdom
Quote:
Originally posted by FAEbGBD:
I thought he was good, not utterly fantastic, but then, my standards are a little high. To me, Sylvain Luc is the pinacle of acoustic guitar players, even more than Tommy emanuel. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXXe2ukYQlY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5bz8qhh0qU


Wowwwwww !!!!! i just wanted to say thank you so much for this link. This guy is outrageous !!!! Just stunning. Made me fall in love with the guitar again.

This is a really really good find. I have spent most of thge evening and a good portion of the morning looking at further clips of this guitarist. I am now very tired but extremely happy.

have a look at this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7-eonEcaLM

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#291603 - 08/28/10 12:14 AM Re: Check out this amazing guitar player (Igor Presnyakov)
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 40449
Quote:
Originally posted by spalding1968:
Wowwwwww !!!!! i just wanted to say thank you so much for this link. This guy is outrageous !!!! Just stunning. Made me fall in love with the guitar again.

This is a really really good find. I have spent most of thge evening and a good portion of the morning looking at further clips of this guitarist. I am now very tired but extremely happy.

have a look at this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7-eonEcaLM

http://www.tommyemmanuel.com/

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