Well Fran...I don't have to convince you, nor do I really intend to try...I only have to please me.

For me, it's all about control and how I achieve it...I can perform on a lightweight, semi-weighted, or weighted hammer action equally as well..just years and years of adapting to different actions, and getting the most out of each one.

No big deal...I'm sure you could do the same.

But, given a choice, for arranger use, I like the PSR action the best...it's not about cost, as I can easily afford a Tyros3 or even a CVP-509...it's all about what I really enjoy playing, and what gives me the best results.

I'm sure that's why you picked the instruments you use.

Ian

Agree...

Roland have NOT stopped making 76 note arrangers...

They have stopped making arrangers altogether other than low end budget arrangers. I would be VERY surprised, if Roland commence making MOTL and TOTL arrangers again, that they would drop the 76 option.

Don't read spin without using your brain... Ian is desperate to find SOME excuse to justify Yamaha ignoring legitimate customer needs. Truth is, EVERY other arranger manufacturer makes a 76. And, to be honest, so does Yamaha. But curiously, they have relegated their 76 (or 88, actually) to the piano division, and crippled them compared to a T3.

So, Ian, Yamaha actually DO believe in a big keyboard arranger... just not a GOOD one

Mmmm...so, the corollary is...they have stopped making 76 note arrangers.

Mainly because they couldn't sell them....I suppose that would be a good enough reason.

They were so popular, no one bought them. Or, maybe there's another excuse? If there is, I'm sure you'll dig one out of your little hat.

That's why Yamaha sells all the 61's it can make...they are so unpopular.

Mmmm again, ...I wonder how many Audya and Mediastation 76 note arrangers were sold?

That's why Korg is still doing the 76 note instrument...they have had no competition since Roland bit the dust.

Ian

Ian, I do not think for a second that Roland has bit the dust...I think it would surprise folks ..just how well Roland does in the market/products field they are in...

It is almost impossible finding data comparing sales between Yamaha, Korg and Roland...How much product does Roland sell? If you judge by the numbers on EBAY...Roland is king on the hill.. ..and I don't think Yamaha folks are holding onto their obsolete after 6 months gear...because they love them..

Here is a tidbit of info...Do you know that Casio outsells Yamaha keyboards (under $1000...6 to 1)..

BTW:-Yamaha has just shipped out Hogan Osawa (President)..back to Japan, and has brought in Tak Nakata to replace him (from Japan).....maybe things aren't doing as well for Yamaha as you think..

I didn't mean Roland has bit the dust altogether...just in the mid and high end arrangers...I would be very surprised if they returned to that area.

They seem to be more focused on the RD-series pianos lately (especially the RD-700GXF), and of course, the combo products like the VR-700...the "home" products tend to make the best profits...that's true in any manufacturer, so they are also more involved with the HP-series pianos (with SuperNatural upgrades) and the V-Piano, which appears to have stagnated a bit for now.

Yamaha changing presidents?

Happens quite often, and it's a normal procedure...they've had about five or six or so since I started (over 25 years ago)...they usually make the change before things ever get bad, so as to keep it fresh.

You know Fran, we clinicians are required to know as much about the competitor's products as they themselves do...and of course, the reverse is no doubt true as well.

Ian

If you couldn't find the point about my post, Ian, you are simply not looking. Roland have ceased production of 61 note MOTL and TOTL arrangers just as much as 76's. So using Roland's cessation of 76 production as an excuse for Yamaha's decision was blatantly simple spin.

What Roland's decision to make this move is anyone's guess. My take would be the overall drop in arrangers above BOTL sales numbers, and the flatness of TOTL sales overall. It simply seems that arrangers are starting to completely miss the needs of the majority of modern keyboard players, and those of us that are older, other than the fanatic few here at SZ that MUST have every new model as it comes out. We are hardly representative of arranger players in general, I am sure!

They also made some bad marketing decisions at the time of the G70, moving them from the music stores to the piano stores. If Yamaha's were ONLY available to be tried in Mom and Pop piano stores (who had no desire to carry them, nor any obligation), it's quite possible that their sales might be a lot lower, too.

Mind you, I DID notice your complete silence about the point that Yamaha DO make bigger keyboard arrangers... but not good ones. Selective responses just demonstrate I made a point you can't refute even by misrepresenting it...

Just think how fortunate we are to have had Roland , Korg and Yamaha instruments for the last 30 years or longer....They have proven to be top companies with great products thru the years....If it wasn't for them ...we may all be playing Ensoniq and Alesis keyboards...

It was more like "ignore" than silence, Diki...I would have figured you were smart enough to know the 76 note arrangers that Yamaha do make, aren't for pros...and that fact, doesn't make them "not good"...it just makes them not good for your needs.

We sell a fair amount of 76 note home piano/arrangers...the 88-note weighted action models sell far better, and both do have their dedicated following...all home users.

Roland made many mistakes marketing the the E-60, and G-70, but that wasn't the only reason they didn't sell.

In the G-70's case, it just wasn't "portable"...in the E-60's instance, it just didn't have enough features for the pro, and too many for the amateur (plus, the semi-weighted 76-note keybeds on both, weren't appealing to those whose primary instrument was piano).

Neither instrument's purpose was focused enough.

That's why Yamaha's DGX series do so well...they keep it simple, and don't spread themselves too thin.

Ian

"The overall drop in arrangers above BOTL sales numbers, and the flatness of TOTL sales overall." Would that be only concerning Roland?

I have sold more arrangers this year than last year, and last year was great...mostly S-910's and Tyros3, with a scattering of S710 this year.

As far as the home market, which is primarily, but not exclusively, the intended destination of Tyros and S-series, the products seem to have been bang on in regards to features being added/upgraded.

The S-910 is possibly the best bang for the buck out there, and even though it's MOTL, it has nearly everything the TOTL has...except the higher price tag.

One time I was concerned that Yamaha was focusing in the wrong direction, but that was a while ago, when the PSR-4500/4600 were being sold against Roland's much better designed E-series...but, Yamaha saw the writing on the wall, and took a similar path as Roland, especially with the PSR-8000.

On SZ, most of us are pros and require pro features on an arranger, and, yes, we aren't exactly typical of the average arranger buyer.

Still, products, intended mainly for home use, end up being used by pros.

Roland's take on the G-70 was that it was for pros first, and home players second, if at all...unfortunately, there aren't that many pros who use arrangers, at least not enough to make an exclusively "pro" instrument viable.

The E-series was a home product, yet many pros used them...they sold a pile of them...I bought several models...what didn't sell to pros, was sold to home users.

Maybe that's where Roland went off the rails...why not focus first on a home instrument, but one that can also be used by pros?

Makes sense. The Tyros/PSR have been doing it quite successfully the past several years, or more.

Ian