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#286688 - 04/30/10 12:12 PM Re: KORG PA2X Style on MS, Sound Comparison
spalding1968 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 1264
Loc: United Kingdom
thats a usuable style for sure Nedim. Thanks for this. I look forward to the demo of the original too.

Do you mind if i ask you did you do all the changes to all four variations or just the one variation.

so far only you and james have provided us with examples of converted styles using a vst as the core sound engine. I have no problems with what i have heard so far and they are a miilion times better than the demos i have heard in the past so well done. Whether that sounds better than the original hopefully will be settled perhaps tommorrow ?

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#286689 - 04/30/10 12:34 PM Re: KORG PA2X Style on MS, Sound Comparison
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.yousendit.com/download/OHo1OU1ha0RRYTlFQlE9PQ

Here is Bandstand VST playing a converted Korg style on MediaStation..
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#286690 - 04/30/10 01:17 PM Re: KORG PA2X Style on MS, Sound Comparison
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3354
Loc: The World
Quote:
Originally posted by spalding1968:

so far only you and james have provided us with examples of converted styles using a vst as the core sound engine.


I have yet to even set up my MS with the new OS, and graphihcs card. Hence no demos from me as yet.

It was why I said way back in the huge deleted thread it would take a couple of weeks, as I had to 1.actually get my old MS back (which had a trashed OS by the way)...
2.Get the new graphics card from Dom (OS 4 will nto run without it)
3. obtain the licence key for Live Arranger so there would be no restrictions on saving and editing.
4. Re-setup the MS with all teh Giga GM library, and the VSTi's
5. Then start recording and editing the chosen style demos.

But having seen that Nedim has provided a demonstration of the power of VST's, albeit on a PC and not on the actual Media Station..There is probably no furhter need for me to do so.

Nedims work properly demos what is possible I think. And should give everyone the info they need.

Dennis

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#286691 - 04/30/10 01:26 PM Re: KORG PA2X Style on MS, Sound Comparison
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5355
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Hi Spalding
How do you define better?

Do you ask a Korg Player?
Do you ask a Roland Player?
Do you ask a Yamaha Player?
Do you ask a Jazz Musician?
Do you ask a Classical Musician?
Do you ask a Big Band Musician?
Etc. etc.

If you ask any of the above, you will get different answers (For and against)

Which brings us back to the original question, how do you define better?

Bill
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Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#286692 - 04/30/10 01:37 PM Re: KORG PA2X Style on MS, Sound Comparison
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
This is probably a dumb question, but wouldn't the audio interface have some influence on the quality of the sound? And things like cpu and buss speed have and influence on latency and (potential) playback glitches? My question is, is comparing a laptop/audio interface to a Mediastation really an apples to apples comparison. I would think that all the components that make up the final sound product would have to be equal for a valid comparison. Correct me if I'm wrong.

chas
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#286693 - 04/30/10 01:58 PM Re: KORG PA2X Style on MS, Sound Comparison
Nedim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
Chas, of course you make sense more then anyone but all the sound quality comparison in todays audio cards is ireleveant and theoretical only. I own at least 4 different high end audio cards, from a 3000$ Apogee Rosetta 800 to a basic 300$ Emu 1616m. I know I am not dumb but used in a day by day applications there is no difference between the two in sound. Latency also, cannot play a part in the sonical qualitY of the sound itself except being early or late. As I know of the MS has high quality audio interface which won't really make any difference how Goliath sounds thru my Audio card or thru MS. In this example I am using a 6000$ Mac G5 but that still has nothing to do with sound quality...it all deppends on the actual sound. I bet you if this example was hear and recorded thru Rosetta or Emu none of you can tell the difference and I stand on it.
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#286694 - 04/30/10 10:29 PM Re: KORG PA2X Style on MS, Sound Comparison
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14211
Loc: NW Florida
The soundcard is about the LAST thing anyone should worry about. Naff samples playing a naff style through the world's best D/A converter will still sound like poo... And vice versa!

The thing is, a 'better' or not judgment would have to be based on a consensus. After all, before being Roland players, or Yamaha players, or Korg players, or MS players, we are ALL musicians first and foremost. We OUGHT to be able to tell what sounds convincing, what sounds lively, what sounds 'real' without clouding it with partisanship for one brand or another. I think I have ALWAYS tried to make a fair and balanced judgment about whatever I hear, even if it doesn't jibe with long-held beliefs... After all, I would be passing up on an opportunity to sound better myself if I let my choice of CURRENT equipment dictate what I would use in the future

That being said, though, despite the INDIVIDUAL sounds of an open arranger, and often the RH sounds too, sounding VERY good, it's when you put them all together, and try to make a coherent piece of music, especially with a style not designed for those sounds you ARE using, that it often all falls apart. But rest assured, WHEN I hear it all come together, I will be the first to say how good it is! (I did it for the Audya, you'll remember, despite my reservations about it).

You see, I don't WANT it to sound just like a Roland (or Korg, or Yamaha). What's the point in that? Already got one... But what it needs to do is have the same degree of cohesiveness that a closed arranger has. Like them or hate them, you can't deny that even OOTB, the styles hang together well. Nothing sounds tacked on, out of place, a fish out of water, whatever. They are VERY carefully designed to work together, perhaps even at the EXPENSE of individual sounds standing out... After all, that is what the art of mixing is all about. It has to gel, it has to blend. If one sound is a great sound, but sticks out of the mix like a sore thumb, it is, despite sounding good, just plain WRONG.

IMO, there are VERY few, if any VSTi sample sets that are as carefully designed as an entire gestalt, as a 'ready to go' complete soundset that you have to do little to make them all blend together. Wish there was, to be honest. It would make my work a lot easier! But so far, I really have heard nothing that is along the lines of a closed arranger (or the old Sound Canvas series modules) in the degree of readiness to use.

You see, some of us may have the skill to mix an entire album, but many of us don't! And asking us to take a soundset not designed as one unit, and then voice it and EQ it and compress it and bed it all together, just so we can get something that comes that way OOTB in a closed arranger is honestly asking a LOT...

But be assured that, when I hear it (IF I hear it), what I use now won't have the SLIGHTEST influence on whether I like it or not. All it has to do is what it has claimed to do all along... Sound WAY better than a closed arranger. As a whole, though, not individual sounds.

Looking forward to hearing it...
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#286695 - 04/30/10 10:33 PM Re: KORG PA2X Style on MS, Sound Comparison
Nedim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
Here we go, just follow this link, it is explained in there: http://www.basaristudios.com/comparisons.html

[This message has been edited by Nedim (edited 04-30-2010).]
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#286696 - 05/01/10 01:25 AM Re: KORG PA2X Style on MS, Sound Comparison
Nedim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
By the way Diki the glitches are gone in the new Demos and they werent in the fills but it
was few times all over, due to my stupidity, i was working in 128 Buffer and forgot it like
that when exporting which caused it.
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#286697 - 05/01/10 01:46 AM Re: KORG PA2X Style on MS, Sound Comparison
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14211
Loc: NW Florida
Pretty good translation. As you said, sound balance could be tweaked to be better, but then again, if you are comparing apples to apples, it's possible to tweak the Korg to sound better, too, I guess!

But, in fairness, this isn't much of a challenge. A VERY simple style, no Intros or Endings (or if there was an ending, the MS sounded kind of abrupt), and not really a style that presents much of a challenge. How about a Korg style that uses its' Guitar Mode, and some of the DNC voices? Some of those really cool smooth jazz styles, the triphoppy, acid jazz kinds of things?

What was that style called, BTW? Perhaps I have a translation of it, and can post a G70 version? Oh, and, can you do us a favor? I'm not trying to be nasty, just want to hear the style properly, but your timing on the lead line was a bit rough, it made checking whether the style was tracking well a lot harder. Can you do future stuff with NO lead sound at all? Let's just stick to the style all by itself, take the RH out of the equation.

As I said, a good translation, I'm not going to deny it. But hardly head and shoulders above the Korg version (if it was recorded as hot, and the drums tweaked a bit louder, it would have compared quite well, IMO), and this is on a style that can only charitably be called simplistic..! But look into the PA800's style library, and I'm sure you can find something that shows off the Korg better...
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