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#286748 - 05/05/10 12:20 AM Re: KORG PA2X Style on MS, Sound Comparison
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5355
Loc: English Riviera, UK
As I said in my previous post Diki, “You are completely out of touch with what open keyboard players want”.
If you want easy play OOTB, (Which is what you appear to be looking for) then like I have “Always” said, buy a closed arranger, as an open system is not for you.

My suggestion Diki is; avoid threads with open keyboards in them, as they are not what you are looking for, that way users who want this type of keyboard won’t have bother keep wading through the irrelevances (To open keyboard users) you keep posting about.
Regards

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#286749 - 05/05/10 12:27 AM Re: KORG PA2X Style on MS, Sound Comparison
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14212
Loc: NW Florida
Bill, this is an ARRANGER forum, and as such, I believe I know EXACTLY what the vast majority of arranger players of any stripe want. And it ain't a do-it-yourself arranger. Sorry, but them's the FACTS.

Stop confusing what I say with a general criticism of it as an open KEYBOARD. I have never faulted it as a WS or Groovebox. That's what it IS.

But as an ARRANGER, it basically blows. Now, if you can't differentiate between what I say and what you WISH I was saying, I'm sorry, I can't help you. But my criticism is aimed squarely at its' use as an ARRANGER...

Clear..?
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#286750 - 05/05/10 12:51 AM Re: KORG PA2X Style on MS, Sound Comparison
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5355
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Hi Diki
All the deep stuff is on the dedicated forums, however items that may interest others (Or requested by others) get posted on the General arranger forum, that they drift off to more in depth talk is just the way forums work.
Hopefully the above will help you understand better.
Regards

Bill

BTW should we ban arranger or expander modules off here as well, just because they don’t have keyboards attached? If so then yes arranger software could also be banned, but somehow I don’t think SZ members see it like this, (Apart from you) so live with it. (You are not the centre of the universe)
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#286751 - 05/05/10 01:17 AM Re: KORG PA2X Style on MS, Sound Comparison
Spalding 4 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/07/07
Posts: 96
Loc: UK
I hear you Nedim. And we are on the same page in terms of what theoretically should be able to be done on the MS. I know theoretically I could take any style from any keyboard and with enough time and skill I could tweak it on my existing Korg PA and make it sound better. An open keyboard would simple give me a wider pallet to select sounds from but that only makes my job harder not easier ha ha :-
) . What I wanted to tie down is the idea that simply by selecting “better/higher quality sounds” you can convert styles to sound better than the original. You and I know that clearly is not the case. The MS has been promoted as the mother of all arrangers and part of that claim was the ease with which styles could be made to sound better on it than the original instrument it came from.

That claim has yet to be substantiated. The claim should be tempered with these additional words:

“This entirely depends on your level of skill and available time to convert styles. Similar results can be achieved with any style conversion on any keyboard if you have the time and skill to do it. Please be aware that you will need to purchase the full license for Livearranger to save any changes that you make to styles on this product. Prices may vary”.

That would be an honest statement of fact and not the current misleading idea that has been promoted by the manufacturer either explicitly or implied for the last 7 years if the economic environment allows.

Now it looks like all bets are off because the software needed to do what the manufacturer claimed the instrument could do, does not come packaged with the instrument in any practical way. (What’s the point in having the ability to tweak styles to your hearts content if then you cant save that without buying more software?).

Anyway. Thank you all for trying to do what the manufacturer claimed could be easily done but has not thought it necessary to provide one example to support their claim.

Dennis I wasn’t baiting you :-) you are a stand up guy in my book. I hope you continue to be amazed by the MS or whatever instrument you move on to next :-) (now that’s me baiting you !).

Best of luck

Spalding (Worth)

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#286752 - 05/05/10 01:26 AM Re: KORG PA2X Style on MS, Sound Comparison
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14212
Loc: NW Florida
Bit of a stretch, there, Bill... Arranger modules getting banned from here? You can't come up with something more coherent than that?

I've never advocated a complete ban on the MS. But I'm determined to keep a level of reality interjected in the middle of the unremitting fantasy island bull that surrounds the MS's use as an arranger. Wild claims are made daily by people whom it is obvious have never tried to do any of what they claim in their lives...

Or are ashamed to let us LISTEN to what they HAVE done.

Me, I've got GB's worth of stuff I have recorded using my G70. Posted several things as examples. I am prepared to let others judge my opinions by LISTENING to it. Not so the MS players. Apparently, an open arranger gives you the right to say it can do ANYTHING and never have to show us actually doing it!

And if you are swayed by that sort of empty rhetoric, I've got some land in Florida you might be interested in. Just send me the money. You can't POSSIBLY want to actually see it first, can you? Just take my word on it..... OK, maybe I haven't actually SEEN it myself, but it OUGHT to be good...

Just send me the money first...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#286753 - 05/05/10 02:09 AM Re: KORG PA2X Style on MS, Sound Comparison
to the genesys Offline
Member

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 1155
One thing everyone must remember is that the extent one can use the MS to its full potential depends on the recourses (sounds and VSTs) available to the user.


I could buy a DAW software program to make radio ready music. But, unless I have the relevant sounds (VSTs or hardware keyboard), I am not going to produce a radio ready recording.

And, it looks like the MS users are busy using their MS arranger they want to use it, not the limited way some people want them to use it.

The point of an MS is to make the style sound the way “you” want it to sound. How “you” want it to sound may not be how “I” want it to sound.

So why should “you” put up a demo when “you” and “I” do not have the same taste?
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TTG

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#286754 - 05/05/10 02:42 AM Re: KORG PA2X Style on MS, Sound Comparison
Spalding 4 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/07/07
Posts: 96
Loc: UK
“The point of an MS is to make the style sound the way “you” want it to sound. How “you” want it to sound may not be how “I” want it to sound.”

Genesys even that statement is misleading. How i want it to sound depends on my ability to make the style sound how i want it to sound regardless as to the tools in front of me !

Your comments should equally be qualified as above .

The MS is not the Nirvana it is being promoted as being for style conversions to whatever your tastes may be.

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#286755 - 05/05/10 05:06 AM Re: KORG PA2X Style on MS, Sound Comparison
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
I don't think anyone on this forum is going to buy a MS/Groove strictly for it's arranger functions. So what, if someone long ago and far away said it would make a great arranger. Who cares. Why keep banging away at something no one cares about anyway? Why keep trying to 'save' people that clearly don't want to be saved. Once you've made your point(s) and the handful of people who are interested in the MS have responded with 'thanks, I hear you, but I still like the machine', then maybe it's time to let it go and move on. Everyone here is over 21 and capable of making up their own minds. Plus, as long as they're paying for their own equipment with their own money, why should anyone else be concerned about what they like or what they purchase?

The point is, we can (and should) point out what we like and dislike about a piece of equipment but should NOT insist that everyone else share OUR point of view. What we believe is valid for us, what the other guy believes is valid for him. We need to respect that. Once we've presented (our view of) the information and the 'other guy' chooses to ignore it and ends up making a purchasing mistake, well that's his right; he's an adult. Maybe he'll listen to you next time, maybe he WON'T, that's his right, too. We all know what happens when someone DEMANDS that everyone come around to their way of thinking. We should probably try to avoid that here on SZ, no matter how passionately we feel about something (musical). JMO.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#286756 - 05/05/10 05:57 AM Re: KORG PA2X Style on MS, Sound Comparison
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5355
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Hi Spalding
Let’s say an MS user has (With on-board VSTi) 75 Steel String Guitars available to choose from. (Remember the Komplet 6 VSTi I have mentioned previously has over 7000 sounds available to the user, so 75 Steel String Guitars is a drop in the ocean)

Which one of the 75 does he choose to replace the Steel String Guitar in a converted Korg style that would be acceptable to you?

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#286757 - 05/05/10 06:13 AM Re: KORG PA2X Style on MS, Sound Comparison
Irishacts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1631
Loc: Ireland
Quote:
Which one of the 75 does he choose to replace the Steel String Guitar in a converted Korg style that would be acceptable to you?


He should use his two ears to answer that question.

I really don't get any of the arguments against all this. It's no different than loading a midi file into your keyboard. To improve any midi based file on your keyboard you simply select other sounds and adjust the volume.

If people are saying that they can't or won't do that, well what the hell are they doing even reading this thread ?

Nobody is saying that the MS/Groove is universally better for every users.

James

[This message has been edited by Irishacts (edited 05-05-2010).]

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