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#286264 - 04/22/10 06:36 AM Open or Closed Keyboard
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5352
Loc: English Riviera, UK
I have posted something like this before, but most folks have now forgotten it, so I thought I would post again.

1. If you want a keyboard where everything is done for you, and you are happy to accept what the manufacture supplies for you, then a closed keyboard is the way to go.

2. If you want to do your own thing, use the sounds and software you want, are prepared to put the work in and never have to buy a new keyboard (Just update the Hardware/Software) then an open keyboard is for you

To sum up

OOTB experience, go for closed

Do your own thing, go for open
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English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#286265 - 04/22/10 06:56 AM Re: Open or Closed Keyboard
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Based on what you've posted, I prefer a closed arranger keyboard, but I would like to add this...

My mid-range Yamaha PSR-S910 allows me to edit sounds, styles, effects, registrations...I can import new styles, and sounds (edited on-board voices) and customize the instrument to my needs and style of playing.

If one is prepared to put in the work, a "closed" keyboard can be very adaptable to a player's expressive style and needs.

Maybe not to the degree an open system can provide, but, still pretty flexible and personalizable nonetheless.


Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 04-22-2010).]
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#286266 - 04/22/10 07:06 AM Re: Open or Closed Keyboard
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Ian agreed....ditto.

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#286267 - 04/22/10 08:23 AM Re: Open or Closed Keyboard
FransN Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 1415
Loc: Netherlands
I also agree with Ian. My PA500 allow you to change everything. Beside that it is also fun to buy a new keyboard so now and then. Also closed keyboards are much better supported.

Frans

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#286268 - 04/22/10 09:06 AM Re: Open or Closed Keyboard
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Come to think of it, any arranger with MIDI ports is hardly a totally "closed" system.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#286269 - 04/22/10 09:30 AM Re: Open or Closed Keyboard
FransN Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 1415
Loc: Netherlands
Yes or you use the USB and a laptop and you can do the same as an open keyboard if you want.

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#286270 - 04/22/10 09:53 AM Re: Open or Closed Keyboard
AFG Music Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 513
Quote:
Originally posted by abacus:
I have posted something like this before, but most folks have now forgotten it, so I thought I would post again.

1. If you want a keyboard where everything is done for you, and you are happy to accept what the manufacture supplies for you, then a closed keyboard is the way to go.

2. If you want to do your own thing, use the sounds and software you want, are prepared to put the work in and never have to buy a new keyboard (Just update the Hardware/Software) then an open keyboard is for you

To sum up

OOTB experience, go for closed

Do your own thing, go for open



it depends on what you understand under open or closed.

a product such as Wersi Lionstracs or MS / GROOVE, also comes with sounds and styles. if people are satisfied with the styles and sounds, they have nothing to do and the product is as good as closed arranger.

but if they later want to do more than they can also do it. because every day they learn more of the capabilities of the product.

if you have doubts about open system, just use one as your second keyboard. then you wil see that is an ultimate set to.

many people buy the same two closed products, and give no chance for new open products.

people have the wrong idea about open systems. they think it is just a PC or laprop, with some electronic parts linked to PC.

but they forget if a product is well made as LIONSTRACS MS / GROOVE it's like you're working on a closed system.

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#286271 - 04/22/10 11:58 AM Re: Open or Closed Keyboard
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14203
Loc: NW Florida
It's already been shown that the styles and sounds that COME with the MS are very lackluster and amateurish. So, as is shown by the interest in Yamaha style players and Ketron style players, you HAVE to start out as if it were an empty keyboard.

But, to be honest, the answer to the question is 'NEITHER'...

I don't want to have to give up expandability for an arranger that sounds great OOTB, but I ALSO don't want to give up immediacy and ease of use for something that is expandable. And currently, NO-ONE is offering us that choice. The open arranger makers COULD, right now, but they are too cheap, lazy or ignorant to realize what 99% of the market actually WANT... Sure, we want what they got, but we want what WE got, too. Put the two together, make it affordable, and the world will beat a path to their door.

Take the path they have chosen... it's up to YOU to do ALL the work, if you want to at least sound the equal of a closed arranger, let alone better, it's going to take prodigious amounts of work and skill, and they will remain what they are now... niche products for a niche market (and a subset of what is already a niche market )

The arranger is already relegated to a fraction of sales of WS's. And open arrangers are a tiny fraction of that fraction. Simply because the manufacturers won't take the time and effort that the closed arranger manufacturers do. Look at the sales figures... it's is obvious to all but the deliberately blind and ignorant what the vast majority of arranger players wants. That doesn't mean we don't want the open expandability AS WELL. But only a tiny handful want to give up what's GOOD about a closed arranger to get what's good about an open one...

I want it ALL...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#286272 - 04/22/10 12:34 PM Re: Open or Closed Keyboard
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5352
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
I want it ALL...[/B]


Who doesnt?

Currently however the big boys wont make them open, so that they can tie you in to what only they provide. (Including a new keyboard every 3years)

The smaller companys on the other hand, can make everything open, but dont have the finances to create bespoke styles, so have to rely on using others.

My post was just to point out the differences, so as to make it easier for prospective customers to choose which type of keyboard would suit them. (The best keyboard on the planet today, is the one that suits YOU not somebody else)

Bill
_________________________
English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#286273 - 04/22/10 12:59 PM Re: Open or Closed Keyboard
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14203
Loc: NW Florida
Don't have the finances? Haven't they heard of something called 'making an investment'?

I mean, who in their right mind WOULDN'T want an open arranger if it started out with as good a selection of styles and sounds that comes in a TOTL closed one?

What do they want? 1% of the market, or 90% of the market? You have to spend money to make money. Blowing it all on continual OS development, at the cost of zero quality included content has been the reason why they AREN'T the market leader. For all their limitations, at least no-one can accuse the closed arranger manufacturers of not knowing what the vast majority of arranger players WANT...

But it's far to easy to see that the open guys don't CARE what we want. And who wants a product from a company with THAT attitude?
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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