Bullsh*t, Donny...

I GUARANTEE that the pianist playing in the backup band used HIS sustain pedal!

Once you get past the hokey music and costumes, their act was actually quite amazing. I may have had a few 'impure' thoughts during their performance .

chas

Correct Diki....the keyword is here is "PIANO PLAYER" of which I am not...
I only said I dont use sustain pedals "on stage" no need for it. You play your way I'll play mine.. ...in the studio when I'm recording is a different story if I need that type of sound, I'll use a pedal or two maybe.

No need to phrase correctly when doing a sax part, either, or voice horn sections correctly, or swell an organ part, or any of the other myriad things that make a performance authentic. When you say "I dont use sustain pedals "on stage" no need for it." you are saying only that YOU have no need of it. You are content to sound unpianistic, and that's fine.

But, all in all, I believe I will take your advice. I'll play MY way (like a pianist) and you play yours (like someone that doesn't CARE he doesn't sound like a pianist)

diki thank you for your concern......
enjoy all your pedals.

Enjoy your voice...

Donny-why won't you take a few moments and show us how you do this? Or at the very minimum, could you please describe how you use this technique on uptempo songs as well as slow tunes. Are you playing over a midi file that already has a full piano part or riding styles?

I think to play with out a sustain pedal while using a piano as a main instrument puts you in a box where for me, a pedal is needed. I don't think its a crutch for bad technique...it provides an effect two hands can't replicate in most cases.

Instead of posting irrelevant videos that don't pertain to this discussion, just detail how you do it and we can all move on.

Other people get asked about techniques all the time and they provide further explanations all the time. What's the hesitation about?



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Bill in Dayton

I'm done with this subject I hope you people can also.... enjoy your music I certainly enjoy mine.

Thank you
http://tinyurl.com/y3a3wjr

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 04-20-2010).]

Well, that's disappointing...

Anyone else gets asked to please explain how they do something, a technique, achieve an effect, etc., and people bend over backwards to provide as much info as possible. Gary, Don M., Cass, myself, anyone. But not you...

I've asked you as politely as I can or I should for more information, yet you won't provide any. Why?

This is a little reminiscent of the ejam threads where you'd post comments or something and then pull them off and pronounce you were "done with this thread." I'm not looking for drama, just some information...


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Bill in Dayton

[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 04-20-2010).]

Doesn't make sense Donny...

That thread discusses paramater or effects edits that might add an effect, but you specifically posted something about a "lightening fast technique" remember?

Never mind, Donny...doesn't matter...

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Bill in Dayton

MIDI piano needs all the help it can get as it is.

MIDI piano without a sustain pedal properly used, sounds like poo.

--Mac said that.

And I'm stickin' to it.

Although I do not use a sustain pedal on stage because I am not a piano player, scarcely use piano as a main sound, and don't play full-fingered two hand mode on an arranger..."lightening fast technique" refers to using your fingers to make button changes while you play vs a pedal of any kind.

Well, don't you think it is somewhat presumptuous to tell people they don't need a sustain pedal when you admit you are NOT a pianist, don't play piano parts, scarcely play piano as a lead sound at all and don't play two fisted fully fingered piano at all?

That's just basically saying 'I never use a sustain pedal, but that is because I suck at piano!'. Now THAT'S advice we can all respect, eh?!

I don't play all that much guitar, and I would NEVER presume to tell anyone how to play it, or that my system works 'for me'... I would simply admit I suck, and perhaps actually LISTEN to someone who IS better than me at something, in the hope that I might get better. If you didn't spend so much time telling people how good you are, Donny, you might actually learn something... But stubbornly sticking to a 'lazy-boy' approach because you are too self satisfied is the way to stop any growth musically you might ever have.

DON'T 'enjoy what you play'.... Try to play better, and enjoy THAT!

I use the piano sound quite a bit and rarely use the sustain pedal. I use the technique one would use playing an organ, which I am more of than a pianist.

An organist has to learn how to sound smooth without a sustain pedal. This means kind of crawling with your fingers. Let's say you play 2 or 3 notes with your right hand and then you need to move up, you move one or more fingers over to play some of the same notes as you are moving to play the next series of notes etc, etc.

This is kind of hard to explain in words, but, if you put on an organ sound and just using the right hand try and play harmony with melody on top with your 4th and 5th finger, fill in chord notes with the remaining fingers, make it sound as smooth as you can and you will see what it takes to play this way.

I have just transferred this technique to arranger keyboard. This is the compromise I have made since I play the keyboard like an organ as my preferred way. I like to use all the different sounds and be able to change them quickly, so full keyboard is not my first choice.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 04-21-2010).]

Playing both piano and organ for years, I must say that there are two distinctly different playing styles needed to be mastered in order to do justice to either.

*Piano-Forte* -- Literally, the "Loud-Soft" connotes the difference in the instrument's name. It is a Velocity Sensitive kaybed and the way you finger that is *all important*. Playihg an organ style keyboard and using organ fingering technique may get the notes out there, but it is indeed going to sound different than playing the same part on a velocity sensitive keyboard, with correct settings and correct fingering techniques.

That said, I think it also depends a lot on the genre of music being played at the time. I have, for example, played some rock or R&B tunes on a MIDI keyboard with no sustain pedal on a few occasions where the stage show or whatever dictated that. Most of those were NOT examples of the piano-forte, though, they were more like examples of cover tunes that weren't recorded by very good pianists in the first place. But for their intended purpose, they work.

**When I first started on organ, after about a decade on piano, the drill was to place coins on the backs of the hands and practice scaling and later on chording, etc. without moving those coins or dropping them. Exact opposite technique from what we do on the piano, which is to move the fingers or whole hand a lot more in the vertical.

**I can't stand those darn MIDI keyboards that leave the Velocity Sensitivity turned on for an organ patch, either. Again, might come in handy for a rock cover where there is no Expression Pedal available, but certainly not very realistic, even when you know what to do and how to mimic the real McCoy.

It's amazing what the Ross sisters can do vocally and physically eh?

Thank you for the response, but I have some questions...

You say the ""lightening fast technique" refers to using your fingers to make button changes while you play vs a pedal of any kind."

What specific buttons are you pressing to replace the sustain pedal? Have you re-assigned the sustain function to another button on top of the kb?

Please explain...

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Bill in Dayton

The Yamaha S910 (probably other Yamaha models too) has a sustain button on the right-hand side that comes in handy. Although, I think that a pedal is a little friendlier to use.

Opinion—
If you do not use a sustain pedal when playing a piano you take away 40% of the instrument sound possibilities. I have been tuning pianos for the last 45 years.

Having said that – I have never used a pedal with any of my keyboards. I do use the harmony chord and a pedal to turn it on and off but no sustain pedal. This is neither right nor is it wrong. Keep in mind that I came to the keyboard as a guitar player, if I came as a piano player the pedal would be a must because it would part of the way I learn to express my feelings on the piano. The sustain pedal does without doubt add a favorable a beautiful dimension to the piano’s sound.

John C.

As a former accordion player myself, I think Donny is using his S910 more along accordion lines (forgive the presumption Donny )..Totally understandable to any accordion players.

And lets face it, with an arranger, who needs a left hand comping bass/chords.

I do play with my left hand froming my own chords in full keyboard mode, but then I have not played an accordion for about 20 years. Piano was the instrument I wanted to learn, but living in a tiny tenement when I was a kid meant there was no room.

In my case I developed my own left hadn "piano technique" which gets me by.

I DO use the sustain pedal, but I can really understand where Donny is coming from, and agree it is certainly possible, and not that difficult to achieve.

Dennis

Thank you Dennis....your partially correct as I started on accordion as a child 6 years old and changing to organ and later arranger KB from it's inception...I am just tired of this topic of sustain and not entertaining it any longer online. I will will gladly talk privately via email if you wish about it.

Even though you need a sustain pedal, that doesn't mean you abuse it. Anyone that took piano lessons knows, there are places where you PLAY legato, and places where you use the sustain pedal. A lot of piano literature actually marks in the pedal points. Obviously, the composer knew where and when BOTH techniques should be used. You don't use the pedal as a crutch for poor legato technique (that's nothing unique, Donny, pianists are supposed to be able to play BOTH ways), but you don't use legato fingering as a substitute for the sustain pedal, either. Both have a unique sound, and appropriate times to be used. Limit yourself to just ONE and you lose half of what the piano sound is capable of.

Thing is, Donny, I started on accordion, too. Spent many years as an organist as well. But that doesn't STOP me from being able to use a sustain pedal, nor recognizing when it does and doesn't NEED to be used... I simply prefer to not let my equipment (or lack of it) dictate what I HAVE to play.

My stomach muscles (what's left of them ) and my back ached just WATCHING that video ...
t.

I hear ya T....who knows what they are capable of.... simply fantastic to watch!!