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#285980 - 04/17/10 01:05 PM Ventilator in Keyboard mag..also MC5
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Both Ventilator (rotary stomp box) and MixCraft5 (daw) are reviewed and given "key buy" awards in Keyboard Mag..

Bernie, how does the G70 drawbar organ sound thru the Ventilator?
Also how does the rotary (Ventilator) compare to Native Instruments B4 rotary..?
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#285981 - 04/17/10 02:27 PM Re: Ventilator in Keyboard mag..also MC5
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Problem with using the Ventilator on the HB section of the G70, Fran, is that you STILL can't port it to its' own output, so you have to stop using the G70 for anything else while you use it. And there are VERY few sampled organ Tones (which you COULD route to their own output) without some Chor/Vib and Leslie already sampled into them, which makes for a horrible sound if you run them through a Leslie a second time...

Wouldn't mind getting one of these for my old Voce V5 module, though. I thought the Leslie in the Ventilator sounds a LOT better than B4's, to be honest. Main thing is to get some decent reverb on AFTER the Leslie. That's what p*sses me me off so much about the HB section. Pre-Leslie reverb! (and post-main fader distortion )

What utter morons!

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 04-17-2010).]
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#285982 - 04/17/10 02:36 PM Re: Ventilator in Keyboard mag..also MC5
Bernie9 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5507
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
Fran
It sound really good on drawbars and a few non Leslied organs. I use it in my band with separate UPG's, with the output from the mains. I even have some with drawbars and other instruments where I can put them on direct and tweaked to sound good. The biggest disadvantage with the G70 is that you cannot send the drawbars out on direct. This, of course, means no auto acc as Diki said on a previous thread, because you lose the effects if put out direct. I didn't try it, but took his word for it.

I don't have this problem with my Kurz or KN7000, as they send drawbars out on direct and the Nord sounds great with the Vent.

I always liked the B4 on my Receptor, but the Leslie sim is so much more pronounced using the Vent. I like the fact that I can tweak it all I want. I also have the Motion Sound Pro 3X that is going up for sale.

Believe me, there is nothing like it. It is the best purchase I have ever made, and I have made a few in my day.

Bernie
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pa4X 76 ,SX900, Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station, Bose compact

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#285983 - 04/17/10 02:45 PM Re: Ventilator in Keyboard mag..also MC5
Bernie9 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5507
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
I was answering when Diki posted. While we are on the G70, is there any way to advance the OTS numbers with a pedal or switch ?
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pa4X 76 ,SX900, Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station, Bose compact

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#285984 - 04/17/10 02:55 PM Re: Ventilator in Keyboard mag..also MC5
Tonewheeldude Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 1537
sorry, the ventilator is another very average quality stereo simulator.

just listen to the demos through headphones to see what I mean...it will make your eyes roll as the sound shifts from left to right on slow.

i like Lonnies very politically correct "for using with a wanabee hammond organ"...lol



[This message has been edited by Tonewheeldude (edited 04-17-2010).]

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#285985 - 04/17/10 08:22 PM Re: Ventilator in Keyboard mag..also MC5
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
No, no OTS advance. Only way to do it (not a bad one, mind you) is to make a duplicate UPG of each with the OTS setting, put them all adjacent to each other in a UPS, then use an FC-7 to do UPG Up/Down.

"....and if you try sometime, you just might find.... You get what you need..!"

Two things I REALLY want on the FC-7 would be OTS 1-4 and Marker 1-4. Two REALLY handy things to do, that you would never need at the same time. 'Bout time someone hacked the OS of the G70, now it's officially orphaned

The thing about stereo separation is you can dial it down. Or use a stereo combo like the TraynorK4 to make sure that 'wide' is still only a couple of feet (like a real Leslie). If you are DI'ing into a PA, set your pans on 10 to 2. But doesn't the Ventilator have a 'width' parameter? If you are going to listen on 'phones, you probably want to dial that back...
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#285986 - 04/18/10 01:52 AM Re: Ventilator in Keyboard mag..also MC5
Tonewheeldude Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 1537
A Leslie is not stereo, but it is a very 3D sound.

The acoustic image has to have more than one element moving within the stereo scene. Whilst the primary signal moves from left to right you also need to hear intensity as the horns throw the sound in different directions. more intensity and frequency range as the horn passes toward you, and less as it moves away. But more than intensity, there is a slight doppler (pitch shift) effect due to the horn moving toward and away from you. Also the bass rotor does not move with the horns (and sometimes in the opposite direction!) so that also needs a seperate image in the acoustic scene.

To date the only simulator I have heard that does this is the one on the KeyB which I know doesn't help you.

As far as I am aware a good add on simulator (at the moment) is a complete myth. But I always listen to the demos, just in case.

The demos for the ventilator are essentially a fixed mono effect moving back and forth across a stereo image that you can adjust to some degree. It lacks Intensity, Frequency and Pitch. As well as the supplementary elements as the sound is reflected back.

Why only one of the manufacturers have realised this is beyond me.

[This message has been edited by Tonewheeldude (edited 04-18-2010).]

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#285987 - 04/18/10 12:07 PM Re: Ventilator in Keyboard mag..also MC5
Impuls Offline
Member

Registered: 02/24/02
Posts: 614
Loc: Netherlands
And you think it sounds unreal ??
http://www.neo-instruments.de/de/ventilator/ventilator-demos

I like the sound of it,but my T3 will do the job also for me (in band)

Impuls.
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#285988 - 04/18/10 01:46 PM Re: Ventilator in Keyboard mag..also MC5
Tonewheeldude Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 1537
Quote:
Originally posted by Impuls:
And you think it sounds unreal ??
http://www.neo-instruments.de/de/ventilator/ventilator-demos

I like the sound of it,but my T3 will do the job also for me (in band)

Impuls.


those are the demos i based my comments on.

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#285989 - 04/20/10 12:31 PM Re: Ventilator in Keyboard mag..also MC5
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
There's a BIG difference between the sound, close up, of an actual Leslie, and what your audience gets to hear, whether live in a medium hall (small room, usually the Leslie is sufficient by itself) or on a recording. Once you bring secondary amplification into the picture, most of the lovely 3D aspects of the Leslie disappear for the audience, and, of course, a stereo recording already IS two mono recordings combined to give the illusion of a full soundfield.

So, for purposes of a Leslie sim, the 3D aspects of a Leslie can be discounted, IMO. The goal isn't to make something that sounds JUST like a Leslie with you are sitting next to it. It is to make something that, when heard from the audience's perspective, is indistinguishable from a miked up (and recorded) Leslie. It's altogether too easy to fall into 'purist' traps and poo-poo anything that doesn't give YOU the impression of sitting next to the Beast, but the ultimate goal is to give your LISTENER that impression...

Sit at a REAL Steinway D or a nice CIIIF Yamaha, and there are 3D aspects to the sound that no recording or sample set can truly reproduce. But you are probably just FINE with using a TOTL sample set for live or recordings (Ivory, Truepianos, etc.), confident that your audience can't tell the difference. Why should the Leslie be any different?

The Ventilator (at least to my ears) comes as close as any sim I've heard (seeing as KeyB don't want to release the sim separately) at reproducing the 'recorded' sound of a Leslie. If TWD has any other nomination he thinks are BETTER, I'd love to hear them. But diss one sim, you've basically dissed them all. Even KeyB only outputs stereo, so the three dimensionality of a close up Leslie is gone for THAT, too...

The point I was trying to make about collapsing the stereo image is that a REAL Leslie's total spread direct is the width of the horns. The rest is throw. But altogether too many Leslie sims and B3 clones get put through PA's with the speakers 15-20 feet apart! So obviously, the stereo is wrong! Same thing for headphones... in real life, the left ear hears what the right ear does and vice versa. Cans stop that, and ruin a sim, unless you dial back the 'width' parameter.

The real trick to a sim is, record it live, with a combo (or just solo, even), then play it back and compare it to other RECORDINGS of a real Leslie, not to an actual real Leslie in the room! That's the only way you are getting a fair comparison...
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