I used to use all the same arguments and excuses as you when the XM1 and XK2 was released. I even wrote a guide for adjusting virtual mic angles and distances, correct panning and speaker placement and even using the best speakers and x-overs.

But the fact is...A budget price cola tastes as good as real Coka Cola to someone that hasn't had real a real Coke.

...The Hammond Player knows the difference, and when given the chance to hear the real thing so do the Audience.

Whilst average products get good reviews there is no incentive to do the job properly. I now know it is possible to create a 3d image in a stereo environment. Someone will do it, maybe not KeyB...but keep pushing for it and it will come.

I've played a Hammond/Leslie combination most of my adult life but am now quite happy with the built-in 'sim' on my Nord C1. Does it sound like a Hammond/Leslie? NO. Does it sound good? Yep. Has ANYONE ever complained that it doesn't sound authentic? Not so far. They HAVE complained, however, about me playing a wrong chord . Says it all, as far as I'm concerned.

chas

at least you couldn't have played the wrong note when you were grabbing a fist full of drawbars eh



[This message has been edited by Tonewheeldude (edited 04-20-2010).]

People hearing real and fake Leslie's on recordings for years. I doubt ONE of them can tell the difference. They are still more concerned about WHAT the organist plays, and less on what he plays on...

Far too much of this high priced 'clone wars' bull is about marketing and making money for the dealers. Let's face it, some of the top players in the business been happily endorsing and playing these same sims and clones that YOU find utterly unacceptable. But if you made more money of THEM than a real B3/147 combo, bet your life the story would be different!

Thing is, I remember what a REAL Coke, out of a real glass bottle tasted like back when I was younger. Even Coca-Cola doesn't sell the 'real thing' any more, and people are just FINE with drinking what they do make. It quenches the thirst, and after all, isn't that it's JOB?

A LOT of Hollywood scores are performed on 'virtual' orchestras, these days. ANY purist will tell you they don't sound identical to the real thing. But the audience rarely has a clue. As, to be honest, most musicians can't, either (bet YOU can't tell a good orch sim from the real thing). I use a real B3 and 147 in the studio several times a week. But out live, I'm happy with the sim. Sure, it's not identical. But neither is my piano, my Rhodes, my Clav, my strings, my horns, my synths.

But it's close enough for my audience, and it's THEM paying the rent...

Excactly Chas it's ALWAY about the "PLAYING" NOt the instrument.....that's whats so comical in some of these threads.....people should PLAY, PLAY, PLAY, ......instead of TALK TALK TALK.......I have no problems with the NORD leslie sound..I enjoyed playing it when I had the chance in some of the stores in the area. Nord makes a very fine instrument.

bet you didn't use the expression pedal, though!

You know, for someone that goes on so much about 'Play, play, play', it's amazing how little you care about WHAT you play, though.. Someone that is willing to play piano parts without a sustain pedal honestly has no right to make comments concerning the authenticity of ANYTHING, IMO...

Zzzzzzzzzz geeze diki you are really getting boring.....so much as you always know everything...I have to ignore what your saying most of the time. Especially on this sustain topic...I do it my way...you do it your way...there are NO rules........let's leave it at that shall we.....

but you can't can you?.......so continue with your last words as usual.....I got better things to do like go out for dinner now. Enjoy yourself.

i never said it wasn't any good full stop..its average, and fine for an average player with an average clone.

a serious hammond player will still lug a leslie around until something comes along that will not just be an average replacement..it has to be as good...or 'almost' as good as the original. And its not always about whats best for the audience. a good Hammond Organ will give something back and improve the performance of the player too.

The way I see it if your ok with the hammond sound on a general keyboard then something like the ventilator will be fine, so by all means go for it. Thankfully there are still plenty of people that don't feel inclined to settle for average gear.

So, if it's average, what is 'better than average' in your viewpoint as an organist..?

I mean, when the OP is about the Ventilator (a Leslie sim), what's the point in saying it's not as good as the real thing? Neither is Ivory compared to a SteinwayD, but few have the money to lug one of THOSE around. And few can lug a real 147 around these days, nor a full B3.

Back in the REAL world (you know, the one without cartage companies and roadies and technicians to set up and maintain a dinosaur rig), most of us HAVE to use sims. So, rather than just being a killjoy and purist, how about something USEFUL?

Like, if you don't think the Ventilator IS the best Leslie sim out there, which one DO you like the best (that is available standalone)..?

i never did compare it to any other sim if you read back. i listened to the demos because i was interested in it aqnd posted what i though to it...actualy i was hoping it would be better, because there is a great need for a good simulator. if anyone knows of one...please tell...because i don't know of one myself.

and if we don't compare a simulator to the real thing..whats the point? Our benchmarks for anything should always be the original version, wether its an effect or a sound....for instance, do you honestly not judge the sounds on your keyboard against the real instrument they are supposed to be replicating. if they don't sound as good as the real instrument, you can never say they are 'good' copies. ok, you might have to accept them as they are but it still doesn't make it sound any better.