Many posts have had conflicting price reports on TOTL Arrangers, so I did a Europe search (The Arrangers main market) so that SZ members can make a true comparison.
NOTE: Currency conversions do not usually relate to actual price in another country, therefore check with the nearest dealer in your country for that country’s exact prices.

I have also included links to manufactures product sites, so that their features can also be compared.

Bohm Silverbird €4480 (61 Notes) (Last known price) http://www.bohm-organs.co.uk/


Ketron Audya €3990 http://www.ketron.it/prodotti/index.asp?idTipo=2


Korg PA2x €2985 http://www.korg.co.uk/products/professional_arranger/pa2x_pro/pa_pa2x_pro.asp


Lionstracs Groove X6 €3790 http://www.lionstracs.com/store/


Roland E80 €2222 (New) http://www.roland.co.uk/products/productdetails.aspx?p=825&c=18


Wersi Pegasus Wing €3990 http://www.wersi.net/index.html


Yamaha Tyros 3 €3499 (Excluding Speakers) http://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/musical.../?mode=overview

thanks, thats interesting to see all the prices together and compare them all.

One thing thats strikes me..they are not very pretty are they a couple of them need a serious make over!

Seems like Korg gives the best run for your money...

There are some models missing tough...

Korg PA800
Wersi Abacus


[This message has been edited by Bachus (edited 03-12-2010).]

Hi Bachus
The PA800 is a MOTL arranger (At least price wise) and that is why did not include it.
The Abacus is basically a single manual Verona organ (Hence it has all different types of organ keyboard combination set-ups) rather than just a keyboard, whereas the (Now discontinued) Ikarus and New Pegasus Wing are just keyboards, and this is the reason I have omitted the Abacus.

Bill

I understand your reasoning Bill,

But for me the pegasus is just a watered down Abacus, it misses to many good things.

I think for me the price of the T3 is the most shocking considering that it's by far the least advanced out of the bunch technology and feature wise.

It's more of "Home Keyboard" than a pro Arranger.

Regards
James

They are all "home keyboards"...the Tyros3, the Korg PA-series, the Rolands...as would any instrument with easy play single finger chords.

The "home" market is the most lucrative, so any instrument that appeals most to that type of buyer will be successful.

Having said that, Yamaha arrangers are used on Nashville Row for song writing...have been for years, so pros like them too.

I just finished a quick one week tour and the Tyros3 still wows them...it just happens to have all the right features...great sounds (especially the SA and SA2), incredible styles, and a terrific operating system that has proven itself time and time again with each new Tyros iteration.

It's not that the T3 is "better" than any other TOTL arranger, but it has proven itself to be definitely one of the best.

Ian

I used to pay 2 or 3 times the price of a new car for organs. Now, the most expensive arranger is far less than the price of even an economy car. It's priorities!
DonM

Most of the Midi accordianists and midi guitarists that buy Ketron arrangers need single finger chords...they would have to have very versatile toes otherwise. But your right about the Tyros; here in the UK it is unashamedly marketed to the ex home organists. Korg PA series sell well to the Oriental/Asian players and Roland appear to have dropped out of the scene a little and dropped arrangers in favour of the Atelier Organs.

I used to haul one of these around a special order portablized Yamaha C-605 Electone...it was twice the cost of the present Tyros3 back then...in today's dollars it would be a pretty penny.



Now a 30 lb arranger can do way more, cost far less, and is a doddle to transport.

Ian

In the 70s a hammond Organ cost the same as a detached bungalow in outer London!

I had one of these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Yamaha-FS-500-Triple-Keyboard-Digital-Organ-RARE-MINT-/320445361664

It was the last one I had. It retailed for $15,000. A new car then was maybe $6,000. I went to a PSR70, DX7, drum machine and piano module, and never looked back.
DonM

BTW, that thing weighed nearly 350 pounds and the bench was 30. Had to have organ dollies to move it, and then add the Leslie with it. I don't miss those days at all. I think it was the last organ made before midi was invented.


[This message has been edited by DonM (edited 03-12-2010).]

Perhaps, but the number of chords available using single finger is very limited...major, sevenths, minor, minor7th...not a lot to go on.

I had a buddy that used a midi accordion with a Roland RA-90 and he didn't have it set for single finger...he was playing augmented, major 7th, minor 7th flat 5's...even the occasional demolished chord ...so it couldn't have been single finger.

I thought a midi guitar sent chord information from the 6 strings...I can't see how single finger would work, unless the guitarist was using bass pedals, and that would again limit it to only major, 7th, minor, minor7th.

Ian

It's funny that the 2 best keyboards(my opinion) are the cheapest. Oh and the PA800 is definitely a TOTL Arranger. The PA500 is a MOTL Arranger.

I had a D-85 before I got the portabilzed C-605, and it had the same type three keyboard setup...the sound was analog, and pretty good for the day...it weighed a ton.

The motorized faders on the FS-series were troublesome Don...did you ever have to get them fixed?

The FS-500 was quite the instrument all the same...I use to play one for hockey games at the local arena....the Brass Sounds were very strong...you had to be careful.

They had it piped into the house speaker system.

Ian

My father used to sell Yamaha Organs in the late 70s/early 80s. I remember being wowed by a White GX1 and speakers in his showroom.

Putting a 'home player' feature on a keyboard aimed squarely at the pro gigging musician doesn't make it a 'home' product, Ian. It simply extends the market that the product might appeal to.

If any of the TOTL arrangers were TRULY 'home' keyboards, they would start by taking OFF all the features that are hardly used by home users at all...

Samplers, detail voice editing, complex style editing tools, things that 99% of 'home' users never switch on ONCE.

I know, I know, some 'home' users will now pipe in and go 'but I use those things', but in truth, about as many home users use those things as 'pros' use the one-finger chord system (there are some that have admitted it )

Some VERY advanced supercars have got stability and traction control on them, despite the 'pros' seldom using them. Does that make them commuter cars? I doubt you would describe your Enzo as that...

Yes, I agree...it is meant for "home", and extended to the "pro" market.

Remember...all arrangers started out as "home" easy play keyboards...pros just started using them and, of course, more pro-type features, like broader chord recognition, were added.

The first arrangers were "home organs"...organs that had easy play "One-finger" accompaniments added.

It was only natural to see these features on "home keyboards"...the early arrangers like Yamaha's PS-6100, Casio's CT-series, and Korg's SAS-20.

Today's arrangers just have more features...they still evolved from, and are based on, the home market first.

Ian

All keyboards started out as 'home' keyboards... (except maybe church organs!). They were played at home, in people's houses.

What makes a WS any more 'pro' than a TOTL PA2Xpro or Audya (or G70/E80)..? I've seen PLENTY of MoXS's, Fantom's and Triton's sitting in people's houses (along with SteinwayD's, C5's, etc.). That make them 'home' keyboards..?

Apparently... They have easy to use arpeggiators, plenty of great content provided, and tools that make the amateur use of them easier. So, I guess ALL keyboards are 'home' keyboards, eh, Ian?

Now, it wasn't that long ago, you were saying that these features were used by more home players than we would imagine.

Most of my clients are anxious to be taught how to use style editing, and voice editing...why wouldn't they? Why buy an instrument with all those features and never use them? Yamaha forums have plenty of users asking questions about, and learning how to use, these features...it must be the same on Korg forums, although Roland Arranger.com is rather slow lately.

The Internet has opened up many resources to home players, that were not available when arrangers were first introduced, and these keyboard/arranger type forums are very busy.

Most pros use workstations...not arrangers...we are a very small bunch here on SZ.

Ian

No, don't be silly, Diki, my friend...ALL keyboards are not "home keyboards"...just the ones with easy play, single finger accompaniments.

A workstation is a "pro" keyboard that can be used at home by an amateur or a pro.

An arranger(with single finger chording and easy play features) is a "home" instrument that can be used at home by amateurs, or on stage by pros.

Both workstations and arrangers are first presented as what, and who, they are designed for initially...then there are exceptions.

The manufacturers stick the word "Pro" on home arrangers to, as you say, extend the market, but anyone should realize that an instrument with single finger easy play chording, began as an instrument for amateurs.

When they remove single finger chording, then I will agree the arranger is being marketed as a "pro" instrument....but not until.

Ian

Ian, I can stick ONE finger down on a MoXS, M3, FantomG, and have an incredible, complex, full band sound come out. In fact, it's why many amateurs have them. They sure wouldn't if you had to build them all from scratch and program the arps and loops like you used to.

That, by your definition, makes them 'home' keyboards. It doesn't MATTER whether the manufacturer CALLS it 'One Finger System' or not. It's what it IS...

And Ian you know, despite your best efforts, that the vast majority of arrangers, even TOTL ones, are used by people that do little more than switch them on and noodle. So what if it is 95% rather than 99%? You are pee-ing into a gale when you consider the overall number of arrangers sold...

I DO think more people use some of these features than some might imagine. But I only think it's a drop in the bucket of those that COULD.

i don't think you can stereotype all arrangers into one category. Here they have distinctive markets as I already mentioned above but they do cross over into each others territory. For instance Some Ketrons will sell to home users, some Tyros will sell to pro users. Each keyboard does a superb job in the market its intended for but can also work very well in others too.

I've always based this argument on how the instrument sounds rather than what features it can offer. Every TOTL keyboard is more than adequate to be played in a live / pro situation and it wouldn't sound out of place.

I was reading some of the history pages on various manufacturers sites and this quote totally backs up my own beliefs that it's primarily in the sound:

"Korg introduced its first professional arranger in 1993 with the i3 model, which proved to be the first in a huge series of Korg 'interactive' products. Until that time the auto-accompaniment keyboards were designed primarily for home use, but i3 changed that. Its tone generator was an AI2 engine coming from the renowned Korg synths, which made it a perfectly useable 'pro' keyboard."

Danny.

Well, Diki, old pal, we'll have to agree to disagree.

My opinion...

Workstations are/were designed for pros, and are also used by home players.

Arrangers were designed for home players, but some are used by pro players.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

It's quite obvious that far more pros use workstations rather than arrangers...and very few arranger players work as pros.

The most I've ever heard of are the arranger users on SZ...hardly a record number.

How many on Roland Arranger.com?

YPKO has a fairly large arranger user membership, as does PSR Tutorial...only a very, very small percentage use arrangers professionally...they are mostly all home players.

A Workstation's arps aren't full blown accompaniments that include multiple fills and intros/endings, triggered by a one finger chord...big difference...they are mainly used to build up recording tracks...rarely ever used live.

You will never convince me that an instrument with a single finger easy play chord accompaniment wasn't designed as a "home" keyboard first, and a "pro" keyboard second, if at all.

Your G-70 is no more a pro keyboard than a Tyros or a Korg PA2Xpro....stenciling the word "pro" on an instrument doesn't make it so...it's just marketing savvy, hype, or both.

In my opinion, they are only "pro" when a "pro", like yourself, uses them.

Let them ditch the one finger easy play, and then I'll consider them pro.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 03-12-2010).]

I'm not putting them all in one category...yes, you're right, they do overlap.

Some pros use arrangers...some amateurs use workstations...but these situations are generally not the norm, and are usually the exception....in fact, in all probability, there are probably more amateurs using workstations than pros using arrangers.

Arrangers are simply made for home use first...some pros are smart enough to find them useful for solo gigging.

And, maybe the word "pro" doesn't quite nail it...perhaps the words "advanced player" might be better.

Ian

My opinion on this is that only Roland and Korg have Pro Arrangers as they use the sound engine of their workstations and synths. Even the cheap GW8 and Prelude have a PRO sound.

Well, no news here... you've been on this tack since day 1

Personally, I think the lines are so blurred, it's pointless to call them one thing or another. For every one feature that ONLY a home user would use, there is at least one feature that appeals only to the pros.

The reason, though, that you don't see many pros using them compared to WS's (at least in North America, Europe it's a whole different ballgame) is that they simply aren't voiced well for the contemporary keyboard player (I'm talking those in their 20's and 30's) rather than any intrinsic difference. And that they are a LOT harder to find in a store (at least those above toy level) than WS's, for comparison purposes, and they come chock a block full of styles that no-one under forty really gives a damn about.

But if ALL you've got to point to arranger's undisputed status as a 'home' keyboard is ONE feature, well, I can point to a half dozen that say 'pro' loud and clear. Majority rules...

One excellent "loud and clear" reason trumps several mediocre reasons any day...like I said, you can try and convince yourself you're playing a pro arranger, but the only part of the package that is "pro" is you.

Single finger chording...yeah, that's a "pro" feature alright....not! Add all the so-called pro features you want...it still started out as a home keyboard as long as it uses one-finger chords.

Next thing it'll be painting a number on a car's door suddenly makes it a racing car.

Ha ha.

Ian

Yes I know And I won't change my opinion until Yamaha finally decide to put the quality sound of their workstations into their arrangers.

Most rally cars are based on a standard road car but with enhancements.

ever heard of Saloon car racing?

How about a 10 second street racer based on 4 door family saloon?



TWD

Ha finally figure it out how these smileys works

Or adding traction control STOPS it from being a supercar! Ha ha!

Circular logic gets you nowhere, Ian. As long as you can put down one finger on a WS and get accompaniment, apparently no number of REAL 'pro' features overcomes that handicap. Sauce for the goose...

You've got to remember that ALL electronic keyboards started out with the humble organ. Every last one of them. They ALL have their roots in 'home' organs (nobody made portables at the start) no matter WHERE they are now. 'Pro' arrangers like the PA2Xpro, T3, E80/G70 and Audya have far more features taken from pro WS's, samplers, synths and other pro type keyboards than they do from home organs... but that is their common roots. By YOUR definition, every single keyboard on the planet is a 'home' keyboard. You are going to have to do better than that!

If you can't make a definition of a 'home' keyboard that doesn't include those keyboards that even YOU classify as 'pro', you haven't nailed it yet. One finger chords? WS's got 'em. Pro's playing arrangers? Plenty of those here. Roots in organs..? The lot of 'em.

Have another go...

Congratulations, Frans. Now you can avoid posting any words at all, as most of your comments basically boil down to that emoticon...

Now thats not nice

Surely you jest? The Tyros3 has a great many patches from the Motif, and quite a few incredibly cool new ones that are exclusive to the T3.

My S910 also has a lot of Motif patches...all excellent.

Then there are the Super Articulation 1 and 2 plus Mega voices.

Great sounding patches aren't lacking on either.

But, if you prefer the Korg sound, then no amount of great sounding Yamaha synth and acoustic voices will ever win you over...but that's okay...there are plenty who are very impressed with the new voices.

As I said before...Yamaha's arrangers aren't "better", because that is a personal thing and there is no clear winner...but they are definitely among the best.

Ian

See? The words are redundant

Sure some sounds on the Tyros 3 and PSR are fantastic but I am talking about the total sound.

If you put a Tyros 3 or a PSR s910 next to a Motif XS you will notice that the total sound of the Motif is better and more expressive.

If you spend so much money on a Yamaha arranger don't you want the best sound available. I know I will and many with me.

That's fine guys...I don't mind being ganged up on...especially when I'm right.

Big glaring and unavoidably unprofessional feature....Single finger chord...the hallmark of a home keyboard.

Why have it, if these arranger instruments are meant for pros first and home second...are some pros unable to form chords?

Even with three of you, you haven't even made a dent in my premise...not even a tiny little scrape.

When the arranger is made without single finger easy play chords, and factory one touch settings, then I'll agree it is made for pros...but not until.

It's still a "home keyboard" with a few workstation enhancements....not a workstation with home keyboard features.

Ian

and oh so open minded too

I agree...that's why I chose the S910 for my own keyboard.

If the Korg synths I played are any indication of what their arrangers sound like, then I've made the right decision for me.

I can't for the life of me, find a Korg arranger to try...not one of the many dealers I visit carry them....maybe I'd like them...maybe not.

But, the sound I want to hear coming out of my speakers, is the sound of the S910, or the Tyros3...are they better than the Korg?

To me they are...and that's who I have to please.

You can play whatever suits you...if it ain't Yamaha, it's hardly a problem of mine...it's just a matter of what you like to hear.

Pretty simple, eh?

Ian

Yes there you are right. The most important is that you like what you hear and play. What kind of Korg synths do you play?

have a read of this sent to me by Steve Turner who now uses an Audya:

"All of the backing tracks and arrangements to my songs and compositions have been initially prepared using Solton or Ketron Keyboards!
Of these, the most successful songs include:-
I) THE 2002 Official Commonwealth Games Song (Manchester) - DO IT the Mancunian Way' - www.mancunianway.com ;
II)The Official Song for the International Nile Festival, CAIRO EGYPT IN 2008, performed in the presence of the First Lady, Mrs Suzanne Mubarak, and broadcast on Egyptian National TV and surrounding African countries - where i was also a Board of Jury Member - www.inf-egypt.com ;
III) A re-write of the Egyptian song called 'The Belarusian Way' which I performed as one of the Guest Performers in Belarus last year during the ‘International Festival of Arts - Slavianski Bazaar in Vitebsk', 2009; -where i was also a Board of Jury Member - www.festival.vitebsk..by/en/index.html
IV) All of the songs from my stage musical project 'Tie Break', a musical set in the tennis world! www.tennismusical.com

Many of my songs have won and/or have been placed in many International Song Contests and Composing Competitions."

so would you say this guy uses professional gear?

oh and i posted this in another thread (these are not Steves):


http://www.hammond-organ.com/downloads/1.mp3
http://www.hammond-organ.com/downloads/2.wav
http://www.hammond-organ.com/downloads/3.wav
http://www.hammond-organ.com/downloads/4.wav
http://www.hammond-organ.com/downloads/5.wav

I prefer to think of my position as being focused.

I'd be more than glad to see the other side...if there was one.

I've already agreed they overlap...but, that's as far as I go.

Nobody has adequately explained why a "pro" instrument has a single finger chord function...you'd think, just for the sake of pride, the manufacturer would have taken it off...but, no, it remains, and so does the "home" keyboard connection.

Ian

what do you think of those samples Ian?

because to me the proof of the pudding is in the eating not on the labels.

By the way I do agree with you wholeheartedly that some of the arrangers are home keyboards that are used professionally...but I don't agree that all arrangers are.



[This message has been edited by Tonewheeldude (edited 03-12-2010).]

Only way you CAN be right is for one finger chord WS's to be home keyboards, too. Nobody's ganging up on you. Paranoia, must be the cold weather... You are simply wrong until you find a definition for home keyboard that DOESN'T include WS's too (or just go ahead and call THEM 'home' keyboards as well). It's your own logic, Ian...



Apparently... you forget that many pros are singers first, and keyboard players second (and the entire hiphop loop triggering generation of VERY 'pro' and wealthy producers that trigger loops with just the one finger)...



If you continue to disregard every point, stick your fingers in your ears and go 'La-la-la-la-la!' until we stop proving you wrong (come to think of it, was Frans' emoticon a portrait of you? ), you have every right to think yourself correct. Problem comes when you actually ADDRESS any of our points. Which, so far, you haven't.

YOUR definition of 'home' keyboard includes WS's and just about every keyboard on the planet. Until you finally acknowledge that FACT, and come up with a better definition, you have completely missed the mark. And no amount of self-righteous delusion can change that simple problem.

If you can't define 'commuter car' well enough that it excludes the Ferrari Enzo, you haven't come up with a good enough definition. Plain and simple. Or perhaps, if Canada won ONE gold medal in Vancouver, that means they won the entire thing? Canadian Logic...

Take REAL logic, and filter through an endless winter, and too much maple syrup and bacon stuffed in your ears, and it all suddenly makes sense (like curling!)

lol iki above

if we are doing links then we could say arrangers are from home organs, all of which came from the Hammond Cinderella; based on the A, B and E type; that were designed as a low cost replacement for a pipe organ.

Oh dear we are all just Chappel Organists!

TWD

[This message has been edited by Tonewheeldude (edited 03-12-2010).]

If the Audya has a single finger chord feature, it is essentially a "home" keyboard, with workstation enhancements.

I'm not saying that someone can't do a professional recording with an arranger...I've done a lot myself...I'm not arguing that it can rival a workstation...I think it's actually more useful, at least for my needs.

What I'm saying, is when you have single finger chording on an instrument, it smacks of "home keyboard"...that's all.

I love arrangers...I don't really care if someone thinks it's a "home keyboard"...I laugh all the way to the bank.

Just because a workstation has arps, doesn't make it an arranger...my Roland Jupiter 8 has an arpeggiator, and it ain't a workstation or an arranger.

Yes the line blurs somewhat...but as long as they keep putting a clearly "home" feature on an arranger (i.e. single finger chords), I'm going to regard it as such.

We'll just have to agree to disagree...otherwise it'll be just like the Mac vs PC debate(PC's are better )...there'll be no clear winner.

Ian

but where would be the fun in that ?

so did you listen to those puddings...I mean samples?

My definition of "home keyboard" is not what you are saying.

I said an arranger with single finger chording is a home keyboard....not "every" keyboard.

Your G-70, because it has single fingered chording, is considered a home keyboard...they are sold in stores that carry home keyboards...not pro shops.

Ian

MMMMmmmmm.... Bacon!

If the Audya has single fingered chord, I would say that Steve uses a "home" keyboard in a very professional way.

But, it still is a "home" keyboard.

Nothing wrong with using a "home" keyboard for professional gigs...most of us on SZ use them that way...but it still is a "home" keyboard as long as it needs to have single finger chording...I don't know any pros that use one-fingered chords, so why is such a feature on the instrument?

Because, it started out as a home keyboard, and had workstation enhancements tacked on.

Ian

What does bacon have to do with your G-70 being a "home" keyboard, unless you think it's a "Pig", We used to call my old B-3 by that name because it was so heavy, so I can understand your reasons.

Bacon? I don't touch the stuff myself, too fatty, too salty, and full of nitrates.

You must remember...the G-70 was sold alongside other arrangers, digital pianos and Atelier organs...the home market.

It was sold in Canada the same way.

Ian

Ian, if YOUR 'definition' is the only thing that matters, you can hardly blame us for regarding it as a joke. For something to be any more widespread an accepted term than your own private language, it has to pass certain criteria. You keep narrowing your definition, as it suits you. First, it was keyboards with One Finger Chords. Finally acknowledged as spurious by a redefinition. Now it's 'arrangers with One Finger Systems'... That is, SO conveniently, ALL of them Quod erat demonstrandum. Game over, he shoots, he scores!

Only the most self deluded thinks that only HIS definition of a phrase is the one, the only, the ne plus ultra. So, by your own rules, MY definition of 'Canadian Logic' MUST be correct. After all, I say it's a fact. And no amount of proving me wrong will prove me wrong And, if I finally wake up from my hibernation, and realize I am starting to sound like an addled bear, all I'll have to do is change it to not include the bacon (but the winter and the maple syrup still stand), and hallelujah! I'm right again!

Global warming can't come soon enough for me!

BTW, all 'pro' keyboards have black and white keys. All arrangers have black and white keys...

QED

Yes that's right...it is "arrangers with single finger chords"...very perceptive of you, considering your handicap.

That makes it very simple...simple enough for even you to understand, although I have a feeling it could possibly slip by you again.

So, here it is again...if an arranger has a single finger chord mode, it obviously is a home keyboard...beginners use one-finger chords, so that's why it's there.

Now, you can tack on all the features you want, but it is still a "home" keyboard.

Even more remarkable, is that they are marketed that way in stores...why?

Because they are regarded as instruments for fun and for the hobbyist.

Stenciling the word "Pro" on them, is an attempt to expand the market from "home" users to professionals....more money for the manufacturer...understandable.

Here in Canada, and the USA, I'm told, the few G-70's that were sold were displayed alongside other arrangers, Atelier organs, Casio keyboards...they were, and still are, regarded as "home" keyboards...for awhile no one knew how to categorize them...no speakers was an attempt at looking pro, but single finger chords, and auto accompaniment like the Casio's near-by, shouted "home" and "amateur"...so, guess what won out.

Now, I know you sometimes have rare moments of lucidity, so I'm hoping you are in one of them when you read this post, and you can not only understand my point, but you can cut out the insults to Canadians (and your revelations of your ignorance of them as well) and we can carry on with your futile attempts to call an arranger with single finger chording anything but what it is...a "home" instrument, for fun and for hobbyists, occasionally used by professionals.

Ian



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 03-12-2010).]

Why does everything need to be labeled and categorised ?

Since all arrangers have different options and all workstations too, lets just all name them "Keyboards" and just compare the features and quallity...

This whole discussion does not make sense to me anymore

I am beginning to get Synthzone at last...The great thing about it..is that you can just pretend to 'miss' the things you would rather not see and go away knowing you are right and everyone else is wrong....how wonderful!

hehe

there is a fun element to the bantering as long as its not taken too far.

TWD


[This message has been edited by Tonewheeldude (edited 03-13-2010).]

Right...just like you've been doing all along as well.

hehe

The "fun" element in the bantering, is usually watching how many insults, and how much mockery some people try to get away with, as long as the stuff is accompanied by a smiley (that's supposed to make it "okay"), and as long as it has little or nothing to do with the topic.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 03-13-2010).]

In an attempt to sleep-gas the hijackers and return to the original thread....

Where were all these prices found? Online stores? If yes, please name them so we all know and can benefit.

Hi Trident
Most are mean prices from Google product search in Europe, exceptions are Wersi where the price is taken from the manufactures site, Bohm which is taken from a price list they produced last year and Lionstracs which is taken from an Austrian website http://www.tastenpoint.at/shop/index.php (Bohm, Lionstracs and Wersi have limited dealerships, so do not show up on Google product search)
Hope this helps

Bill

So Diki and Ian, how old did you guys say you were? I thought I was the only one still going through pre-puberty.



chas

Well, Chas, old pal...this second pre-puberty stage has one advantage...I haven't needed to shave all day.

For my penance I shall limit myself to single-fingered chords for the remainder of the day, only use factory One Touch Settings, and remove the pictures of you and Diki from the cat's litter box...

Ian

chas

It took nearly a half-hour to read the 63 posts above. Now I'm going to take my home keyboard out and do a professional performance. I'll probably use just a couple fingers for some chords, then switch to four fingers for others--you can do that with home keyboards. I'm going to play some old songs from the 50s, 60s, 70s, most will be upbeat, but I'll probably play some slow stuff too. I'll give the AD an invoice, then we'll sit in her office and set up another 9 jobs for the remainder of the year. Pro players have to do these things or they don't get paid. And if they didn't get paid, they wouldn't be classified as a pro player--they would be a home player, even if they played a Steinway with all their fingers.

When I get home I'll fire up the PC and while it boots up I'll probably mix a tall glass of Kickapoo Joy Juice. Both home and pro players, using both home and pro keyboards, are allowed to do this. It has become a daily ritual before clicking on the shortcut to the Synthzone.

Cheers,

Gary

I think I need a glass of your Kickapoo Joy Juice to put me on a level playing field with Ian. Maybe two That bacon and maple syrup made me thirsty!

What astounds me is the amount of time I wasted arguing with one guy that has made his own private 'definition' up, that few agree with (if any), and has the gall to think that, as long as HE says it is so, it actually IS...

MY 'definition' of arranger is, any musical instrument that drives Ian to delusions of Webster-like authority...

No buddy, there's no such thing as "wasted time", and I consider it an honor to educate you properly about what defines a "home keyboard"....and, we weren't "arguing"...you were just a little confused, and I was guiding you back on the path.

Now, I'd send you some bacon, but I never eat it, and the stuff here in the Maritimes ain't so good...it's cut that thin, that the pig didn't even flinch when they sliced it off his behind.

Luckily, I do have a Maple tree in my backyard...I'll send you a couple of leaves, and you can try squeezing the syrup out of them...

Now, any more questions regarding the status of arrangers, just phone any music store...and ask where they keep them.

Ian

Woops, that sound like it could be a description of Diki as well as me.

Guess I should put on some smilies, just in case.

Cheers
GJ

Btw, is this tread "hijacked now?

Yep, and bound for Cuba...!