No, don't be silly, Diki, my friend...ALL keyboards are not "home keyboards"...just the ones with easy play, single finger accompaniments.

A workstation is a "pro" keyboard that can be used at home by an amateur or a pro.

An arranger(with single finger chording and easy play features) is a "home" instrument that can be used at home by amateurs, or on stage by pros.

Both workstations and arrangers are first presented as what, and who, they are designed for initially...then there are exceptions.

The manufacturers stick the word "Pro" on home arrangers to, as you say, extend the market, but anyone should realize that an instrument with single finger easy play chording, began as an instrument for amateurs.

When they remove single finger chording, then I will agree the arranger is being marketed as a "pro" instrument....but not until.

Ian

Ian, I can stick ONE finger down on a MoXS, M3, FantomG, and have an incredible, complex, full band sound come out. In fact, it's why many amateurs have them. They sure wouldn't if you had to build them all from scratch and program the arps and loops like you used to.

That, by your definition, makes them 'home' keyboards. It doesn't MATTER whether the manufacturer CALLS it 'One Finger System' or not. It's what it IS...

And Ian you know, despite your best efforts, that the vast majority of arrangers, even TOTL ones, are used by people that do little more than switch them on and noodle. So what if it is 95% rather than 99%? You are pee-ing into a gale when you consider the overall number of arrangers sold...

I DO think more people use some of these features than some might imagine. But I only think it's a drop in the bucket of those that COULD.

i don't think you can stereotype all arrangers into one category. Here they have distinctive markets as I already mentioned above but they do cross over into each others territory. For instance Some Ketrons will sell to home users, some Tyros will sell to pro users. Each keyboard does a superb job in the market its intended for but can also work very well in others too.

I've always based this argument on how the instrument sounds rather than what features it can offer. Every TOTL keyboard is more than adequate to be played in a live / pro situation and it wouldn't sound out of place.

I was reading some of the history pages on various manufacturers sites and this quote totally backs up my own beliefs that it's primarily in the sound:

"Korg introduced its first professional arranger in 1993 with the i3 model, which proved to be the first in a huge series of Korg 'interactive' products. Until that time the auto-accompaniment keyboards were designed primarily for home use, but i3 changed that. Its tone generator was an AI2 engine coming from the renowned Korg synths, which made it a perfectly useable 'pro' keyboard."

Danny.

Well, Diki, old pal, we'll have to agree to disagree.

My opinion...

Workstations are/were designed for pros, and are also used by home players.

Arrangers were designed for home players, but some are used by pro players.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

It's quite obvious that far more pros use workstations rather than arrangers...and very few arranger players work as pros.

The most I've ever heard of are the arranger users on SZ...hardly a record number.

How many on Roland Arranger.com?

YPKO has a fairly large arranger user membership, as does PSR Tutorial...only a very, very small percentage use arrangers professionally...they are mostly all home players.

A Workstation's arps aren't full blown accompaniments that include multiple fills and intros/endings, triggered by a one finger chord...big difference...they are mainly used to build up recording tracks...rarely ever used live.

You will never convince me that an instrument with a single finger easy play chord accompaniment wasn't designed as a "home" keyboard first, and a "pro" keyboard second, if at all.

Your G-70 is no more a pro keyboard than a Tyros or a Korg PA2Xpro....stenciling the word "pro" on an instrument doesn't make it so...it's just marketing savvy, hype, or both.

In my opinion, they are only "pro" when a "pro", like yourself, uses them.

Let them ditch the one finger easy play, and then I'll consider them pro.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 03-12-2010).]

I'm not putting them all in one category...yes, you're right, they do overlap.

Some pros use arrangers...some amateurs use workstations...but these situations are generally not the norm, and are usually the exception....in fact, in all probability, there are probably more amateurs using workstations than pros using arrangers.

Arrangers are simply made for home use first...some pros are smart enough to find them useful for solo gigging.

And, maybe the word "pro" doesn't quite nail it...perhaps the words "advanced player" might be better.

Ian

My opinion on this is that only Roland and Korg have Pro Arrangers as they use the sound engine of their workstations and synths. Even the cheap GW8 and Prelude have a PRO sound.

Well, no news here... you've been on this tack since day 1

Personally, I think the lines are so blurred, it's pointless to call them one thing or another. For every one feature that ONLY a home user would use, there is at least one feature that appeals only to the pros.

The reason, though, that you don't see many pros using them compared to WS's (at least in North America, Europe it's a whole different ballgame) is that they simply aren't voiced well for the contemporary keyboard player (I'm talking those in their 20's and 30's) rather than any intrinsic difference. And that they are a LOT harder to find in a store (at least those above toy level) than WS's, for comparison purposes, and they come chock a block full of styles that no-one under forty really gives a damn about.

But if ALL you've got to point to arranger's undisputed status as a 'home' keyboard is ONE feature, well, I can point to a half dozen that say 'pro' loud and clear. Majority rules...

One excellent "loud and clear" reason trumps several mediocre reasons any day...like I said, you can try and convince yourself you're playing a pro arranger, but the only part of the package that is "pro" is you.

Single finger chording...yeah, that's a "pro" feature alright....not! Add all the so-called pro features you want...it still started out as a home keyboard as long as it uses one-finger chords.

Next thing it'll be painting a number on a car's door suddenly makes it a racing car.

Ha ha.

Ian

Yes I know And I won't change my opinion until Yamaha finally decide to put the quality sound of their workstations into their arrangers.