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#281846 - 02/21/10 05:27 AM Yikes! T2 on injured reserve...
Bill in Dayton Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 2202
Loc: Dayton, OH USA
Last Monday morning I set up for my morning gig at a local retirement community and began to set the levels for both vocals and my Tyros 2. I have all the levels memorized so it took very little time to do this.

Everything seemed just fine...

I pull up my first song registration and immediately see something profound is wrong...

1) No registration would load other than the name of the file.

2) My 6-7-8 down buttons would not work. Data wheel did work.

3) My registration 1 button was stuck on green.

4) Somehow, the kb had split itself into a totally different mode. I had piano in the mid and high octaves and an electric bass in the lower register. I always use full keyboard, This had never happened before.

I was able to create registrations on the fly and get through the gig. I couldn't save any of them, nor did I really want to. Acoustically, the kb sounds were all fine.

Finished the gig, counted to ten and flew home to try some stuff. With the gracious help of Gary D., we tried a quick reset, a full factory reset...to no avail. I have all my files backed up in three separate locations. (A friendly reminder to all, if you have a lot of saved customized registrations on your kb, back everything up. I get lazy with this sometimes but boy am I glad I did it now!)

Fast forward to taking it to my friendly authorized factory service shop. The owner treats me like royalty and did again this time. I told him I had jarred the kb loading out late Saturday night. He immediately seemed to think something had been knocked loose or I may have cracked a circuit board. Neither of which would be fatal or that difficult to repair.

He looked...and looked...and looked...didn't find anything. Went through several of the diagnostic tests. No answers. So now major surgery begins on the T2. I had to laugh at myself for the quick case of nerves that I experienced as he and his crew pulled it all apart.

After a few hours, several scopes, meters and other devices probing my kb's various connections he announces that through the process of elimination, he's is fairly sure its a cpu chip. I said how did I hurt that when I bumped it? He said I probably didn't. Oh, it might've finished it off but it was bound to fail on me sooner rather than later.

If all goes well, I should it back up and running for next weekends gigs.

I admire you guys who can crack open your keyboards and have the confidence and knowledge to address some issues. That's never going to be me, lol...

Meanwhile, I've been using the Tyros 1 I've kept as a backup. Its very weird going backwards. Keybed is different, some sounds aren't to my liking anymore. (The growl sax on the T2 kills the one on the T1. I can't use that, its pretty thin, lol...)

Just thought I'd share...

------------------
Bill in Dayton


[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 02-21-2010).]
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Bill in Dayton

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#281847 - 02/21/10 07:00 AM Re: Yikes! T2 on injured reserve...
Tonewheeldude Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 1537
Does your tech have access to full service manuals? there are a huge ammount of tests you can do on the tyros 2. If he is an authorised engineer he can download the PDF file from YSISS. There is a seperate file for tests called Tyros2_TES.pdf.

The model number for Tyros 2 is: TRSMS02

It does sound like a cracked board (unlikely though unless you really whacked it) or a shorted data line. the latter is a piggy to find, sometimes its just the leg of a component touching somewhere it shouldn't and can be anywhere from the DM board itself to one of the control PCB's or even a cable that has perferated slightly or was trapped between panels during assembly.

TWD

[This message has been edited by Tonewheeldude (edited 02-21-2010).]

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#281848 - 02/21/10 08:56 AM Re: Yikes! T2 on injured reserve...
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15566
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Bill and I are both fortunate in that we have access to outstanding, authorized service centers. In both instances, they are factory-trained, certified and capable of trouble-shooting, diagnosing the problem(s) and replacing individual components on the PC boards themselves. While keyboard failures are indeed rare, they do happen.

Technicians in this category are indeed rare. If you have not encountered one in your area I implore you to do so as soon as possible. One day, when you least expect, your keyboard, or some other essential component of your overall system, will ultimately fail. When this occurs the last thing you need to be doing is searching for a repair center that can get your keyboard, etc.. up and working ASAP. You need someone that will put you at the head of the line so you can continue to maintain your commitments to your clients.

One final note: If you DO NOT have some type of backup system, and you do this stuff for a living, well, you get the idea. Bill and I both have backups that are ready to go at a moment's notice. I've always considered backups a professional way of doing business.

Cheers,

Gary
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#281849 - 02/21/10 10:13 AM Re: Yikes! T2 on injured reserve...
Bill in Dayton Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 2202
Loc: Dayton, OH USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Tonewheeldude:
Does your tech have access to full service manuals? there are a huge ammount of tests you can do on the tyros 2. If he is an authorised engineer he can download the PDF file from YSISS. There is a seperate file for tests called Tyros2_TES.pdf.

The model number for Tyros 2 is: TRSMS02

It does sound like a cracked board (unlikely though unless you really whacked it) or a shorted data line. the latter is a piggy to find, sometimes its just the leg of a component touching somewhere it shouldn't and can be anywhere from the DM board itself to one of the control PCB's or even a cable that has perferated slightly or was trapped between panels during assembly.

TWD

[This message has been edited by Tonewheeldude (edited 02-21-2010).]


He was able to pull up the service manual online with all the exploded views, part numbers, etc. If you ever get the opportunity to view this at your repair shop, its very cool. Every component is a hotlink to its individual replacement part.

He started with the switch test and as we expected, came upon an issue when he got to that area of the board. He then suspected a problem with one of the "SA data lines" based on continuity tests...

After more testing for continuity, he traced the problem back to the cpu chip.

He did make the comment that it was beneficial to him that I play a high end Yamaha. Apparently the way they configure their circuit boards make it tech friendly to find these problems. He said if it were a different brand, he would've found it, but it might have taken him longer.

Ditto to what Gary said as well. My wife calls me Noah because I have two of everything, lol...


------------------
Bill in Dayton
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Bill in Dayton

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#281850 - 02/21/10 09:39 PM Re: Yikes! T2 on injured reserve...
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944
Quote:
Originally posted by Bill in Dayton:
He was able to pull up the service manual online with all the exploded views, part numbers, etc. If you ever get the opportunity to view this at your repair shop, its very cool. Every component is a hotlink to its individual replacement part.

He started with the switch test and as we expected, came upon an issue when he got to that area of the board. He then suspected a problem with one of the "SA data lines" based on continuity tests...

After more testing for continuity, he traced the problem back to the cpu chip.

He did make the comment that it was beneficial to him that I play a high end Yamaha. Apparently the way they configure their circuit boards make it tech friendly to find these problems. He said if it were a different brand, he would've found it, but it might have taken him longer.

Ditto to what Gary said as well. My wife calls me Noah because I have two of everything, lol...



Bill had your KB been LIONSTRAC MS you can change the motherboard ASROCK for about 35.00 UK, available at any PC shack near you. I think that Yamaha will be way ahead of the field with self diagnostic and testing, their vast KB numbers in the market WW will require it to be that way. Makes the engineers life easy and a spare part available overnight, see Skude about his soundboard, not certain he's got it yet, been waiting months!

Hope you get it fixed soon Bill.

Regards


[This message has been edited by Tony Hughes (edited 02-21-2010).]
_________________________
Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey

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#281851 - 02/22/10 06:31 AM Re: Yikes! T2 on injured reserve...
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 15566
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Yamaha has a self-diagnostic program built into the keyboard. It's very effective, and pretty much pinpoints the problems. However, like nearly all, built-in, diagnostic programs it cannot tell you which component on the circuit board is defective. But, it will point you in the right direction.

Cheers,

Gary
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

K+E=W (Knowledge Plus Experience = Wisdom.)

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#281852 - 02/22/10 07:12 AM Re: Yikes! T2 on injured reserve...
Tonewheeldude Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 1537
Quote:
Originally posted by Bill in Dayton:
He was able to pull up the service manual online


Sounds like your engineer is on the ball - hope you get it sorted soon!

Quote:
My wife calls me Noah because I have two of everything, lol...


The mind boggles!


TWD



[This message has been edited by Tonewheeldude (edited 02-22-2010).]

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