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#280703 - 02/03/10 03:59 PM Karma , The Arranger of the future (my view)
Mystic Jammer Offline
Member

Registered: 01/10/10
Posts: 41
Loc: quebec
!

[This message has been edited by Mystic Jammer (edited 02-13-2010).]
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#280704 - 02/03/10 05:56 PM Re: Karma , The Arranger of the future (my view)
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
That's kind of cool, I've heard many of the factory Karma demos before, but I wonder if you are taking into account the overall genre bias that Karma's content tends to have..? On the whole, I am not sure I would like to go out and gig with a Karma based keyboard without a TON of preparation, probably a LOT more than I would need to get either an arranger together, or the prep time to do the job with SMF's.

What Karma does is exceeding cool, but I just have always felt it is set up much more for techno and electronica fans than general gigging guys. While there are a FEW jazz GE's, it's hardly the main thrust of the content. And even fewer rock, R&B (old school!), disco, alt rock, etc.. You know, the things we often get asked to play.

Perhaps you are lucky enough to do a lot of Muse, or the more modern electronica bands, but I'm afraid that, for probably the large majority of arranger users, Karma isn't really set up for our type of playing styles...

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#280705 - 02/03/10 07:37 PM Re: Karma , The Arranger of the future (my view)
Nedim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Perhaps you are lucky enough to do a lot of Muse, or the more modern electronica bands, but I'm afraid that, for probably the large majority of arranger users, Karma isn't really set up for our type of playing styles


Its a totally wrong statement and i am not saying this on my opinion, i am saying it
based on strong facts since i have seen people actually gig with KARMA and use it as an
Arranger, KARMA can totally do YOUR kind of music same as an arranger except with a lot more...
the only disadvantage would be few less Arranger functions which you can get around without.
As far as simplicity goes i know both WAYs of working by heart, KARMA seems easier and tends
less time preparation then an arranger...plus bear in mind the advantages of a Workstation over an
Arranger. If something is not clear feel free, i can write about KARMA for days. And already knowing
your response to this i will be a little preemptive, i know you gonna start talking about Chords, and
Scene changes and this and that, trust me, it is exactly like on an Arranger just a little better. Chords
and NTT works perfect, changing things has a WAYYY better CUE functions then on any existing
Arranger to date...plus nevermind the extra features which you can dream only on an Arranger.
Yes, less tracks but not really, you have 5 tracks per STYLE*KARMA, 1 DrumTrack and 4 KARMA.
and another 11 for Solo...and yes...9 FX processors...
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#280706 - 02/04/10 02:05 AM Re: Karma , The Arranger of the future (my view)
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
I'd be curious to hear what is being played live on Karma. Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT putting Karma down - I've used a bit in its' early form, was VERY interested for a while that there was a software version that ran on my old Mac, but it never got ported to OSX (AFAIK), and have spent quite a bit of time in my local store playing an M3.

The thing is, I just never found much in the M3's presets that I thought 'I can go gig with this' other than the odd preset. I need dozens upon dozens of styles to not sound repetitive (I might do a dozen folk/rock tunes, and wouldn't want the same style for all of them!), and, I'm sorry, but I never found enough in the M3's presets that wouldn't necessitate using one GE a LOT...

As with most other things that try to better the arranger, all I ever want to hear and see is someone actually doing it... Not just 'one off' factory demos, but people really using Karma to gig with, playing music that I (and my audiences) can relate to. I'd LOVE to see some links, perhaps some of your OWN music on Karma, to get a better feel for what you are trying to say. Perhaps I'm a little dense, but I am very much a 'show me' not a 'tell me' kind of guy.

I am very open to being shown to be wrong, but, as always, unwilling to be simply TOLD...

Unlike the MS, Karma IS something I HAVE had an opportunity to play with. So, if someone says that something can be done that I couldn't figure out for myself in the store, I would REALLY like to see it in action.

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#280707 - 02/04/10 07:33 AM Re: Karma , The Arranger of the future (my view)
FransN Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 1202
Loc: Netherlands
Yes I would also like to hear or see some demo's. Because if this is all true my next update will be a M3. I also thought that Karma is the best for techno and trance music.

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#280708 - 02/04/10 08:27 AM Re: Karma , The Arranger of the future (my view)
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 6616
I think Karma is an awesoem tool for people that want to create their own music and perform with it..

For people that Perform in a OMB arrangers and styles are way more suited.

Also for people starting out with keyboards Karma will be overwhelming.

But for pro's KARMA is a true tool of inspiration en ingenuity. It challenges their creativity.


To replace an arranger, there should be atleast 200 GE's to mimic the basic music styles, and a huge community to program even more.

Personally I think that KARMA would be a great addition to any TOTL arranger, but not a replacement, only an extra thing to add more indepth tracks to the styles..
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#280709 - 02/04/10 09:24 AM Re: Karma , The Arranger of the future (my view)
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10592
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Bachus:
Personally I think that KARMA would be a great addition to any TOTL arranger, but not a replacement, only an extra thing to add more indepth tracks to the styles..


That's probably it's best use.

I also think it would be great for video soundtracks.

Ian
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#280710 - 02/04/10 11:49 AM Re: Karma , The Arranger of the future (my view)
Irishacts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1631
Loc: Ireland
Karma really is the next evolution as it gives you a freedom that you don't get from Styles. KARMA almost gives you that fully Sequneced sound in a live situation that constantly adapts to what you play. The actual notes you play and how long you hold them are all part of how KARMA generates different elements in real-time. Unlike a Style which is a locked patteren.

Here me playing straight piano for example. http://www.youtube.com/irishacts#p/u/6/gGwH7E_fn6c

You can see when I turn on KARMA. As I said, it really is the next evolution, but for now I think it's too much for arranger users as it requires an entire change of attitude and approach.

Regards
James

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#280711 - 02/04/10 12:30 PM Re: Karma , The Arranger of the future (my view)
Nedim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
Diki, i dont mean no disrespect but understand what i am saying you need the have the
KARMAknowledge i have, then it will be easier, KARMA addopts to you, not you to it.
If i record something for you thats what YOU use and play you will think its edited and i
also dont have any you tube recording of someone live so you win both ways.
But as James said, yes, it is the only thing of Arranger Evolution next, nothing else.
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#280712 - 02/04/10 12:32 PM Re: Karma , The Arranger of the future (my view)
Nedim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
And watching James play Piano here with an Electronic Combi, it can do the same with
a Style that you would use but a lot more. You also get 8 VARS/FILLS or whatever you
program them to be thats how they would act. Stephen promised new update where a
scene will be programmed to act as a FILL IN on an arranger which already exist in the
KARMA OL version but not on M3 yet. Cueing on how to and where to go after changing
scene its already probably better then on an Arranger and same with Chord changing.
KARMA is not only BEATS, it can generate things for your Solo too, like Guitars or Wind
instruments...many people think KARMA only does beats and thats it...no, it can controll
your Solo playing, it can controll the FX processors, it can give you LOWER PAD and many
more things you cant even imagine...i just bought a camera, if i have time i will record
some video of some popular song that you will play, i will create the GEs too and then
you would probably see and better understand the concept of KARMA. Online and PRO
done video demonstrations cannot really give you a full concept since they are made to
actually let you know what they want you to know, its different from a users point of
view, something used on a daily basis, not recorded in a Video Studio somewhere.

[This message has been edited by Nedim (edited 02-04-2010).]
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