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#28058 - 01/22/04 12:39 PM Need Lessons On XP-60
Kenex Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 12
Loc: Portland Oregon USA
Is there anyone out there who lives in the Portland Oregon area and knows the XP-60 or XP-80 very well? If there is then would you consider giving me some lessons. I will pay and hourly rate. I just need a few lessons to get started. The manuals are so damn confusing and i have spent a lot of time reading them but still cannot do what i want to do.Thanks Kenex
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#28059 - 01/26/04 06:58 AM Re: Need Lessons On XP-60
dnarkosis Offline
Member

Registered: 01/01/01
Posts: 217
Loc: usa
What exactly are you trying to do? Have you used the Turbo Start manual?

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#28060 - 01/26/04 02:43 PM Re: Need Lessons On XP-60
Kenex Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 12
Loc: Portland Oregon USA
Hullo to you darkosis.....I have a lot of old sequences that i made on a MC300 [Super MRC]. Back then i had a Roland U20 keyboard and a U110 and i would always use the same Patch on the keyboards and change all of my instruments by using Program Changes from my MC300 sequencer. Now if i remember correctly on the U20 a patch meant a group of six individual places where you could place sounds or instuments plus the drums ch10 and not like it is in the XP60 where a patch means a sound or group of sounds joined together as one. I want to do the same thing on the XP60 as i did with the MC300 and the U20 and U110. Although i am no longer using the MC300 or the U20...U110 but am now using only the XP60 internal sequencer. I want to know how to have one performance on the XP60 that will respond to Program Changes from the internal sequencer in the same way as i used to do with the MC300....ie...I want to choose which patch[sound]i want and then write it into the Midi ch as a PG Program Change. I want the sequence to sellect that instrument for me instead of going in and making physical changes by hand every time to a performance. I have converted my old Super MRC to MRC Pro in the XP60 but i now need to assign new patches or instruments to my old sequences.
I hope that i am making sense here.
I have used the Turbo Start manual and have made a couple of new sequences [did not finish them] from start but it has not helped me to redo all of my old MC300 sequences.
Basically i need one performance that i can use and i need to know how to make PG Progrmam Changes and Contol changes etc from the Internal Sequencer changing instruments and volume within that Performance as many times as i want while the song is playing...I need to assign new instruments to my old sequences.
If i have been unclear here please let me know and i will try to explain it better.
Thanks for answering.
Kenex
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#28061 - 01/27/04 07:24 AM Re: Need Lessons On XP-60
dnarkosis Offline
Member

Registered: 01/01/01
Posts: 217
Loc: usa
Kenex:

Okay, you have several questions, none of which is unanswerable. I may not get them all in this sweep (gotta work), but let's start.

>>I have a lot of old sequences that i made on a MC300 [Super MRC]. Back then i had a Roland U20 keyboard and a U110 and i would always use the same Patch on the keyboards and change all of my instruments by using Program Changes from my MC300 sequencer.

So far, so good. But the Program Changes are going to change, and you will also need extra messages for selecting the various banks where the patches (sounds) reside.

>>Now if i remember correctly on the U20 a patch meant a group of six individual places where you could place sounds or instuments plus the drums ch10

On the XP60 that is a "Performance", where you have 16 parts/channels including drums on ch. 10.

>>and not like it is in the XP60 where a patch means a sound or group of sounds joined together as one.

Actually, Roland calls them a group of "tones" or "waveforms." A Patch can have up to four waveforms active as its tones. A list of waveforms is in the back of the manual.

>>I want to do the same thing on the XP60 as i did with the MC300 and the U20 and U110. Although i am no longer using the MC300 or the U20...U110 but am now using only the XP60 internal sequencer. I want to know how to have one performance on the XP60 that will respond to Program Changes from the internal sequencer in the same way as i used to do with the MC300....ie...I want to choose which patch[sound]i want and then write it into the Midi ch as a PG Program Change. I want the sequence to sellect that instrument for me instead of going in and making physical changes by hand every time to a performance

This is no problem: just use Bank Select and Program Select messages. See below.

>>I have converted my old Super MRC to MRC Pro in the XP60 but i now need to assign new patches or instruments to my old sequences.
I hope that i am making sense here.

Yes, you are; this is not a big problem.

>>I have used the Turbo Start manual and have made a couple of new sequences [did not finish them] from start but it has not helped me to redo all of my old MC300 sequences.

I don't recall, but the Turbo Start may not explain Bank and Program Select messages.

>>Basically i need one performance that i can use and i need to know how to make PG Progrmam Changes and Contol changes etc from the Internal Sequencer changing instruments and volume

Volume is a different matter from Patches; there are a couple of different ways to change the volume of a Performance Part.

>>within that Performance as many times as i want while the song is playing...I need to assign new instruments to my old sequences.

Okay, first things first:

(1) You either have to pick a preset Performance that is close to what you want in your music, or do what I did: Download David Green's "Performance Template" and load and save it into your User Performance memory. It is a "basic" Performance that has been initiated to, basically, flat values and with, I think, Piano 1 or something as the default patch in every Performance Part -- basically a generic GM Performance.

That is my basic User Performance. For every tune, I then include a whole measure (or 2 is I need them) of 4/4 time with no sound at the beginning of my tune in which I send all the Bank Select, Program Change, Volume, etc. messages that the song will be using when it starts. That changes all the Piano 1 patches to whatever I want before the song starts. Then during the song, I send Program Changes or volume changes or whatever as I need them --

But the point is that I start with a basic, zeroed-out GM Performance template and change it to what I want it by using CC, PG, etc. messages before the song ever starts. Check the Yahoo JV/XP group (which David follows) or give me your email address and I'll send you the Zip of the Performance Template I got from his site (I can't find it on his site now): http://www.lilchips.com/oldsite/roland/index.asp

But again: You can use *any* preset Performance you like that resembles the Performance you want for your music -- the template is easy because it starts with everything at "basic" values.

(2) Then you have to select your Patches.

Check out p. 181 in your manual: "Changing a sound during a song." It actually applies to changing a sound *anytime*, i.e., also at the beginning of a song.

Each Patch you select in each Part will require three messages:

CC0, CC32, PG.

The "address" or values you will use for each message are listed at the bottom of the left-hand column on p. 181.

(BTW: Volume messages are CC7, but you can also change volume in other ways.)

The exact procedure for entering them in Microscope mode is explained at the bottom of the right-hand column on p. 181.

You can also enter CC0, CC32, and PG messages while the sequencer is running -- In Performance mode, press Performance and Patch while the sequencer is running and just press any button to change the patch to a different one. Stop the sequencer. Look in Microscope mode (you'll have to back up to the point where you pressed the buttons): You'll see the three messages with the correct values for the patch's button you pressed.

It's just more accurate to enter them manually in Microscope mode as illustrated on p. 181 at the beginning of the song to begin the song. I generally separate the 3 messages by about 4 ticks/clocks, e.g., put your first CC0 at, say, tick 8, the accompanying CC32 at tick 12, and the accompanying PG at tick 16. If you have a lot of messages being sent at the beginning of your tune, separating them gives the synth time to respond. Then at tick 20 I put the CC0 for the next patch I'm choosing.

I hope this helps. Let us know.

doug

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#28062 - 01/27/04 03:31 PM Re: Need Lessons On XP-60
Kenex Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 12
Loc: Portland Oregon USA
Whew!!! Thank you Doug...you sure went to a lot of trouble. I will have to digest all of this info that you gave me. I looked on page 181 of the manual and i have underlined a lot of stuff there already but i will re-look at it with your info in hand.
I would like a copy of David Greens Performance Template but i am not so clued up on how to get it from my computer to the XP60. I do not know to much about computers and i don't know how to unzip a file either. I do have that on my computer however. I can do a search for David Green performance template on the Yahoo site as i just joined it a week or two ago but i am not sure if i will know what to do with it when i find it. I don't have midi on my computer and i don't have a CD burner or anything else except a floppy and CD rom.
I know a bit about microscope mode and should be ok with that.
Yea thanks I know about spacing the PGs and CCs etc out to different clock times and that the PGs have to change from the old ones to the new patches on the XP.
The way that you described using your zeroed out performance template is exactely what i want to do.
Yea cc7 is the way i will do volume changes.
Thank you again Doug...I think that my own personal hard drive "My Brain" needs a lot of tweeking...or just maybe it has a virus because it seems to be working slower and slower.
Ken
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I will make it yet!

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#28063 - 01/28/04 07:24 AM Re: Need Lessons On XP-60
dnarkosis Offline
Member

Registered: 01/01/01
Posts: 217
Loc: usa
>>I looked on page 181 of the manual and i have underlined a lot of stuff there already but i will re-look at it with your info in hand.

Creating the messages is not that difficult.

>>I would like a copy of David Greens Performance Template but i am not so clued up on how to get it from my computer to the XP60.

(1) Save the .mid file attachment to your desktop.
(2) Drag or save it to an XP60-formatted floppy.
(3) Play the .mid file as a normal song in the XP60.
(4) The XP60 will deposit the Template in your Performance Temp area.
(5) Save the Performance Template to a User Performance memory slot.

>>I do not know to much about computers and i don't know how to unzip a file either.

I can just send you the raw .mid file. It's tiny. No need to zip it (the zip package from David contains the same file in different formats).

>>I do have that on my computer however. I can do a search for David Green performance template on the Yahoo site

I don't think it's there. It used to be on his Roland site (and still may be), but he changed things around; I couldn't find it there.

>>as i just joined it a week or two ago but i am not sure if i will know what to do with it when i find it.

See above. Just load it and play it.

>>I don't have midi on my computer and i don't have a CD burner or anything else except a floppy and CD rom.

All you need is the floppy.

>>I know a bit about microscope mode and should be ok with that.
Yea thanks I know about spacing the PGs and CCs etc out to different clock times and that the PGs have to change from the old ones to the new patches on the XP.

Don't forget the CC0 and CC32 messages -- to select the correct banks.

>>The way that you described using your zeroed out performance template is exactely what i want to do.

It's very handy and is the only one I use. I alter it at the beginning of every song using CC messages etc. and sysex from the Transmit Edit function.

>>Yea cc7 is the way i will do volume changes.

David has a nice explanation somehwere about combining CC7, CC11, and Part Volume to control volume.

>>Thank you again Doug...I think that my own personal hard drive "My Brain" needs a lot of tweeking...or just maybe it has a virus because it seems to be working slower and slower.

That's not the case at all; it just seems you're doing this for the first time. We all have to start somewhere.

I assume you are Kenex at the Yahoo group, but one can't send attachments through email there. If you want the .mid file, email me your address at dnarkosis@yahoo.com and I'll send it along.

doug

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#28064 - 01/28/04 03:29 PM Re: Need Lessons On XP-60
Kenex Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 12
Loc: Portland Oregon USA
Thank you for all of this info Doug. As you most likely know I have written to your email address already but i would just like to say here on this forum that tomorrow is my big day for trying all of this out....Now if you guys see on the news someone being struck by a hurled out of the window XP60 and they are calling it a freak accident you'll know who did it. I will wait for the email of the Template that you mentioned and have a XP60 formated disk ready. Great instructions on how to download the template from my PC to the XP60. I wont forget the CC0 and CC32 but i will find out more tomorrow of how much i understand. Could I be declared Digitaly insane by late tomorrow do you think? and cast out onto an old pile of 286 computers.
We will see?
Cheers for now
Kenex
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I will make it yet!

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#28065 - 01/30/04 02:08 PM Re: Need Lessons On XP-60
Kenex Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 12
Loc: Portland Oregon USA
Well Doug I went ahead yesterday and tried to download the Template to a floppy disk. I could not get it right. It is some kind of Media Player with playlist and the list that opens up says
All music
Favorites-4 and 5 star rated
Favorites-Have not heard recently
Favorites-Listen to at night
It does have the template-Temp 830 bytes and i clicked that and it says...Copy to CD or Device...I put a XP60 formated disk in the floppy drive of the computer and click..Copy to CD or Device.. and it keeps on saying...No device detected....What can i say...I am not very smart with computers and it may turn out that i don't need to use the template at all because the good news is that i made some headway with changing instruments in a performance etc So all of your effort to help me is paying off. I will keep you informed of my progress...or is that Regress.
I think I am going to get this right...no more sinking in the digital quicksand.
I will most likely ask you some more stuff shortly as I plod along if that is ok with you.
Oh yea...Thank you to who ever it was that mentioned the JVXP book at Wizoo.com. I just put one on order.
Hey the world is becoming a little brighter..
Cheers for now
Ken
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