http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKeqDN40h7c&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwlGfYf96gU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdSLLqUbhcA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyXTvqaD7xY&feature=related

I like the SA Concert Guitar one the best...it is easily one of my favorite sounds on the S910, and it was also on the S900.

The S910 is a lovely instrument.

Ditto

It is a truly great MOTL keyboard, and the only hesitation I have in giving it five out of five stars is that, ideally, I’d like to give it six.

I can't argue with you that...great post!!

I'm lovin my s910, Yamaha has done an outstanding job with this board especially at the price point..............and ditto to Ian and Donny.

P.S. Donny the Yanks wanted to take back the series so they can win it in the new stadium

I wouldn't have it any other way Steve.....Wednesday Night baby it's all over!!

Jeez, you guys need a Kleenex or something? Maybe a little 'private time'?

You have to give Yamaha one thing, at least... Those are incredibly well programmed styles. Hats off to Yamaha's style team. Awesome!

But... those demos didn't do anything to make me change my mind about the Yamaha SOUND. Yes, I know it's Youtube, but I have listened to much of this stuff at Yamaha's own sites, in better fidelity, and it still seems a little flat and compressed to me. Like hearing a great band playing, from outside the room they are playing in, over a compressed house Muzak system

The styles are great, some of the lead sounds are great (love those guitars!), but I am not in the SLIGHTEST convinced I'm listening to a live band. If that's not your goal, then have at it! For the money, this one's a winner. I might STILL get one, just for the guitars and SA stuff, but unless I was doing background music, I would miss my Roland's ballsy drums and punchy sound if I tried to go solo on it.

I come from a live music background, still perform primarily in live bands lately, so perhaps I haven't forgot what a live band is SUPPOSED to sound like. The S910 might fool you if it's been a while since you sat next to a REAL drummer, but not me.

It's a shame, as those styles sound as well programmed as anything I've heard, but the style is only half the story...

All, as always... JMO

I'm doing okay, but I think Donny may need follow-up therapy.

They are incredibly programmed styles, aren't they?

Take my word for it, the S910 sounds much more "live" in the flesh...much more.

I'm sure Steve and Donny can back that up.

But, it's not going to sound like a G70, and, for those of us who love Yamaha's beautifully polished and refined sound, that's a good thing.

The Tyros3 styles work pretty good in it, the T2's work perfectly, so already you have an "incredibly well programmed" style base from which to start.

Somehow, and I'm far from alone in this opinion, it is more than an incremental upgrade from the S900.

T'would make a great "portable" keyboard for you, Diki...be ideal for those guerilla jam sessions, and a super scratch pad for the hotel room when you're on tour.

I highly recommend it.

Aren't you glad to see people so thrilled with a new arranger?

Makes a change from most of the Ketron negativity, anyway...

I'd STILL like to hear a back to back recording of the S900 and S910 with all the EQ and compression turned off, to see if it really IS all that much difference... Same ROM style, etc.. It's just too easy to get that 'new car smell' confused with it actually being a new car..

I wonder if Roland are going to leverage a MOTL out of the Prelude's (or GW-8L's) promising beginnings..? Somehow, I have my doubts, at least for the near future. But, OTOH, maybe that's a GOOD thing. I would hate to be sitting here with BOTH my G70's, and be wishing that I could have something different! Thank God there is STILL nothing out there to tempt me to replace them (and damn all the R&D programmers for making sure I can't ADD another to them!)

I suspect the upgrade was intended to be much like the PSR-2000 to the PSR-2100.

It could be the EQ and/or compression, although there are no actual user "compression" settings on the S910 like there are on the Tyros3...the EQ appears to be the same, but perhaps the factory presets have been adjusted, or tweaked...I use the factory preset "Concert" setting with my MS60S powered monitors...works real well.

There is also a "Total Gain Adj.", but like the S900, I don't change it.

The S910 was what the S900 should have been.

Having such a light portable instrument, makes going to a jam at someone's house so much less of a hassle...and the accompaniments are handy...you can always mute parts.

I still have the T3 here...did a clinic with it the other day...it's very nice, but more than what I need for gigging...the MOTL arrangers sure have come a long way.

Too bad the McPrelude doesn't have style assembly yet, as not everyone wants to use a PC for editing....they must be able to add that in the OS....the style engine must be based on the E enough to allow it.

So easy to just pop one in the car, or even take on a bus...man, they have to go that extra bit, and do the style assembly addition.

Well, if I get one, I can do the style assembly in my G70 and tweak it in the Prelude. I guess Roland make arrangers for the same people that Yamaha do... those that don't need EVERYTHING on the arranger.

Isn't it a shame that Jørgen and the rest HAVE to make computer software to do some things that Roland's do in the box?! This is a two way street you are driving down the wrong way, my friend

The Prelude OS2 (and GW-8 OS2) are the arrangers that the Prelude and GW-8 SHOULD have been in the first place. Difference is, of course, Roland don't make you sell your S900 to get the S910 so you can have the keyboard it was 'supposed' to be... They just upgrade it for free!

Let' see...so the style editing can be done on a G70...well that solves the problem about poor G70 sales...just pick one up second hand, and use it to program your new GW-8/McPrelude. Brilliant!

No, it's not a shame that Jørgen and Michael B. have to make software to make life easier...that, my friend, is a wonderful thing! These guys are priceless!

They've made some wicked programs.

Yes, the McPrelude/GW-8 OS2 was free...and still no style assembly...see my first paragraph for the solution.

Let's hope OS3 finally makes the McPrelude/GW-8 completearrangers, or maybe there's a Jørgenesque kind of guy at Roland Arranger dot Calm?

I would too love to know this as well!

My local GC does not have one and will not get unless its a special order, (I hate GC)and the Sam Ash is waiting to sell the s900 they have on the floor before they get one in. I have a s900 which a love very much but just reading through the spec. I 'm not convinced yet; maybe if I get my hands on one, It might just blow me away. (not sure yet) But I can't stop to thinking if the upgrade really worth it?

Is the mp3 player in the s910 have a playlist feature which songs play without stopping?

Are there new drum sets or just tweaked s900 drums, especially for the s910?

What other features on the s910 that is not on the s900 that really stands out?


I know there are more styles, but majority is Middle Eastern and/or Asian?




[This message has been edited by mc (edited 11-03-2009).]

Look, Ian, you can't denigrate the Prelude (whoops! McPrelude ) for something that the Yamaha has EXACTLY the same problem with If assembling styles in a computer is so onerous, why are you NOT lambasting the Yamaha's for needing so much of its' editing done externally on a computer, too? At least Roland PROVIDE the software needed to do the task, rather than not bother completely, and hope that some talented amateur will do the job for them

Just imagine how crippled PSR's would be if everybody left it to Yamaha to provide full functionality...

I bet you've got ALL the software for the McPSR's, don't you? Tell the truth, now...

Ian what exactly do you mean by the GW-8 not having a style assembly?

I can go into a style mixing page where you have full access to individually edit the 8 style parts all in real-time.

is that not what a style assembly is?

I rarely use software to edit my styles or anything else on my PSR.

I only use one program....it's called StyleAdjust, and which Michael Bedesem made especially for me.

I am glad that the other software is available if needed, and lots of other Yamaha users benefit greatly from Jørgen and Michael B's brilliant programs.

I never travel with a laptop, unless I want to keep up with my email.

I'm hardly insulting or denigrating the Prelude...I call it McPrelude, because it's all that's left on Roland's arranger menu...the Big Mac (G70) is gone...it's a term of endearment...I'll stop using it, if it bothers you.

I'm on your side, my friend...that's why I mentioned the lack of style assembly on the Mc...er...GW-8/Prelude...how cool would it be to get a great arranger at that price with on-board style editing? Très cool, that's how cool.

Don't be so defensive.

The GW-8/Prelude would be a terrific (and cheaper) alternative to an S910, and certainly a fine complimentary instrument if you already own the PSR.

I'm still interested in getting a Prelude, but only if they add style assembly.

Maybe I wouldn't if you applied the same standards to Yamaha that you do for others... If having to use a computer for some much needed editing is a dealbreaker for you on a Roland, it should be a dealbreaker for Yamaha, too.

Style assembly seems to be a mantra of yours lately re. the Roland BOTL's. I guess I would feel a lot less 'defensive' if you were as vocal about having what HAS to be done on a computer for the Yamaha's be included in its' OS as you are about the Roland...

Oh well...I tried.

Suit yourself.

I really don't have anything critical to say about Yamaha, because I'm basically happy with what it does, even though it needs help from outside programmers...you are on a relentless search for perfection...all well and good, but it isn't my bag...I'm just content enjoying what I have to the fullest.

The Prelude would be a great deal with style assembly...are you saying it wouldn't be?

Most certainly, it is a wonderful tool to have on an arranger...look how crippled the GW-8 is without it.

Yamaha will certainly have an arranger in the Preludes price range with style assembly in it's new models, so it would be to Roland's benefit to add it now, or at least real soon.

Snooze and you lose.

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 11-03-2009).]

Am i missing something? my Roland GW-8 has style editing on board....

Why go nuts "assembly"... just too many styles out there to use...if one doesn't work for you dump it and find or convert another that is suitable no big deal. editing is another story.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 11-03-2009).]

Nick,

You can take parts out of one style and use them in another?

For instance, you could take the bass line from a Bossa Nova, and use it in an 8 Beat....or the drum pattern in a Rock Beat and put it in a Country Beat?

Exchanging style parts...that's what I'm referring to....Yamaha calls it Style Assembly...Roland must have it's own term for it.

I know you can mute parts and/or adjust volume and use a new voice in place of another, but I'm talking about the pattern as well.

I wasn't aware the GW-8 could do this.

Donny, this is pretty basic editing, and very simple to do.

I teach it at my clinics.

It is also very effective.

ok yeah it definitely cant do that onboard. to be honest i never used that feature anyways so its no biggy for me...

Thanks Nick...you had me hopeful there for a minute.

Maybe you're right...in fact, it may not be that big a deal for most people, but it is a very popular part of my clinics, when it can be shown how you can essentially put your own stamp on a factory style, without needing to know anything about note limits, or source chords or anything else that may be too complicated...it's basically a pretty easy and simple operation.

Ian

The Yamaha would be a great deal with all the missing features in it, too. Are you saying it wouldn't be? But you are OK with the way it is.

Look at how crippled the Yamaha's are without them..

You don't have anything critical to say about Yamaha's because you are being so busy being critical of other arrangers for having exactly the same flaws...

It's pretty obvious that there are about as many people on this forum heavily into style assembly as there are into Chord Sequencers..

I guess you're going to have to take your OWN advice about not bitching at other arrangers for not having your favorite feature on board (as long as you CAN do it some way or another). The Prelude is as 'perfect' as the S910. In other words, it ain't perfect at all!. It just WORKS for you. Others have as much right to consider it flawed for them needing external software to do essential things as you do. I doubt you are as willing to admit that degree of flawed operation as you expect others to agree with your assessment of the 'flawed' Prelude/GW-8.

I'm sorry, pal, but admitting that you HAD to have a custom piece of software written for your Yamaha puts it on EXACTLY the same level as the Prelude. Except, of course, Roland owners don't need to get anyone to write the custom software, they provide it from the git-go

Bottom line is, you CAN assemble styles for the Prelude. If you are too set in your ways to do it with the computer, you can hardly point to all the needed software for Yamaha's as a BENEFIT. Shouldn't Yamaha potential (and current) users have the same right to expect it on board as you do the Prelude's?

It's too bad...it's a great tool to have right on the arranger, and it isn't too hard to learn how to use.

My clients are always pleased with learning how to do something that is so simple, and yet so effective.

And, it adds to the perceived value of the arranger to prospective buyers.

It will be on the next entry level S-series.

It can't be as convenient to do on a PC, don't you have to load the style back in the keyboard to hear the changes and how they work over the chords?

Then, load it back in to do more editing.

Ah well...it's obviously not that important to you...maybe you'll have better luck with getting the chord sequencer implemented.

Actually, it IS that important to me. That's why I've got a G70 and not a Prelude (or GW-8). A lot of things are important to me. Having a 76 is important to me. It isn't to you, but that's OK... If there was a 76 S910, I might have one already. But there isn't, and every time I criticize it for that, it's a case of "Yamaha MUST have done their market research, and found out nobody wants them'...

Well, given how few use style assembly, maybe that's why it's a software option for the Prelude? You still constantly recommend the S910, despite it needing software for a lot of things. Maybe you could soften your heart and give it the same break you give the S910?

Whoops, what was I THINKING?!

Not quite, I'm afraid.

The software I had made for me was to allow me to double the tempo of a style, without changing the speed...I could also halve it as well.

I was then able to take parts from the "adjusted" style and use them in another one that was at normal tempo.

Guitar parts, especially strums, take on a whole new character...so do horn riffs, piano arps, and string phrases.

I could also alter tempo by a third, or any value I could imagine.

As far as I know, this can't be done on any arranger, using the on-board style maker.

So, my custom made software was very much a special purpose program....for my needs.

For "normal" editing, the on-board style creator is more than sufficient.

It's probably a software option for the Prelude because it can't be added to the instrument via OS.

I am giving the Prelude a break...I am saying it is a wonderful keyboard that would compliment an S910...if the purchaser doesn't need style assembly on-board, then it would work out just fine.

I want to have it on-board because the software editing is not as convenient, and I don't have a G70, and, because the Prelude doesn't have it right now, and there are no indications it ever will, I'll pass on it.

There are some things we require in an arranger instrument...with you, it is 76 keys, and with me, it is a style creator that allows on-board style assembly.

I might be better off looking for a second hand E-50...it has the same style editing as the G70?

Yep, it does.

Personally, I'd wait... Initially, the Prelude and GW-8 didn't have ANY style editing tools. Now they have almost the same functionality as the G70 (albeit without detail drumkit modification and the amazing ease of the touchscreen system), and some improvements, even. I wouldn't be surprised to see the style assembly included in the future, given how they appear to be importing whole chunks of the E/G series code...

Main thing is, IF it happens, if you had already bought your Prelude, you wouldn't have to sell it to get the new features. Unlike if you had a Yamaha, for instance

I'd wait, rather than get an E50, if I were you... Alternatively, you could get a Sonic Cell and convert the Prelude styles to Yamaha format, and play it through the SC via MIDI...

The style, OTS, and registration editing software that these guys made for Yamaha is really exceptional.

These are great demos.

As far as style support, the T3 styles do sound perfect right out of the box. Only five of them needed tweaking. In my case I first put the T2 styles that weren't on my PSR-S910 on my USB, and then I added the T3 styles that still weren't there.

The T3 styles have OTSs missing, but with OTS Editor software, it takes seconds to load the OTS of a similar style.

Where do you get the StyleAdjust software?

Beakybird

Conversely, if I was to buy a Prelude, and they didn't add the Style Assembly...

I'll wait...maybe, since I'm not planning to gig with anything I buy, I could get a second hand G70...I just want something to play around with at home...I'll send out the Cape Breton Irregulars to look for one in mint shape....it's getting near Christmas, so there may be a few up for sale, or something in an Estate sale....probably be able to get one for under 2 grand.

I'm also interested in finding out more about this new upcoming Casio arranger/piano...88 keys...30 lbs...4 variations/style...style editing...midi sequencer with Audio to USB...pitch/mod wheels, and new tone generator with something akin to Korg's DNC (that's how it was described to me) and draw-bar organ with a very decent rotary...mmmmm....that would be something I could also take out on jam sessions for a bit of fun.

Supposed to be out in January or February.

Also supposed to cost about the same as the Prelude...or less.

Ahhhh, who knows...I may change my mind and spend the money on a new wide-screen TV for my Playstation 2. I'm very content with the 910, so why waste money on gear I may have to re-sell and lose money on...vintage synth gear is different...at least there's a bit of profit (and sometimes the occasional Prophet ) in it.

Just thinking out loud.

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 11-04-2009).]

Hi Larry,

It used to be on SVP World, and in lieu of it closing, Michael has put his Style Manager Series programs on PSR Tutorial...but I don't see StyleAdjust there.

http://psrtutorial.com/MB/bedesem.html

I've sent him an email.

Ian

Nice sounds, but I don't like yamaha drums... sounds too "plastic".
Not to mention yamaha hasn't a 76keys model either...

I have to chuckle at the turn many threads take.

All Donny was tying to do was share some videos on the s910 and it then turns into the merit of one board over the other. How many times do we have to hear ad nauseum my xxx board can do this better than your zzz board does this? We all know that already.

Does it really matter in the big picture? Yes it does, but only to you and not necessarily to another SZ musician. My needs are pretty simple in an arranger, if I like what I hear and my audiences do that's what matters. I'm not playing with a band either, so I know that factors into the equation. I'm finding in the last few years I have about driven myself a little bit crazy trying to find what works best. Have had a g70, t2, psr3k, s900, Korg pa800, now Korg Pa2xPro and an s910. I gotta say I'm enjoying the s910 better than the T2 ( I had a T3 home for a weekend and I prefer the s910 to the T3 just personal taste). I like this s910 so much so that for my assisted living home gigs, I will start using the s910 vs. the Pa2xPro in those locations. The new improved MFD function has been a factor in that decision.

Sure I jump around with brands and models of boards. Do I fully get to know each board? No I don't, but I'm having a hell of a great time make a few bucks with it, then when I find something I think I'll enjoy more I'll sell and move on.

On the subject of 76 keys I wanted 76 keys for so long on a Yamaha board, but times have changed, I'm doing vocals for most of my 1 hour gigs and find less a need for 76 keys than I did 3 years ago when I was only playing instrumentals. Add that that 90% of the venues I play have a nice grand piano sitting in the same activity room or rotunda where I play. When I want to play that insturmental on the piano, I just slide over and I have 88 keys, works for me and the audiences.

[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 11-04-2009).]

Steve wonderful post.....
finally a voice of reason.

Good post, Steve...I get these urges that I have to buy something, and of course, they pass, and fortunately, most times it's before I take the plunge.

I don't miss 76 keys at all, and I do all instrumental...that's not to rekindle the old 76 vs 61 debate...there are plenty of valid reasons why some people need/want more than 61...they just don't apply to me.

I think I'm just going to stay with the S910...all this activity on SZ sometimes activates my "buy-itus" and with my barely under control compulsive/impulsive nature, I can soon wind up needing a prescription for "Buyagra".

Glad you're enjoying your S910, and using it on more gigs...I have a buddy who just retired his PSR-9000 Pro and replaced it with an S910...he's a happy camper...loves the new styles too, especially the jazz and big band.

Did I send you that "reconditioned" slow jazz ballad style I did for/on the S910, called Dreamier Bld?

Works pretty good for those standards like As Time Goes By, Misty, Over the Rainbow, etc.

Let me know.

Larry, you have mail.

Ian, thanks for the reworked styles you sent. Good stuff!

Donny, you're welcome!