i am for linux why?

1-low latency
2-stability
3-fast bugs fixing
4-every programmer or user can help with development to make the software better.
5-you can easy contact the developers if you like new options.
6-you have with linux wine both from windows and linux world.

the most here do not knew that the MS O.S is now in beta 3 stage. soon we have the most advanced workstation system with the release candidate O.S

Irishcts. WElcome to the discussion. You dont really know the history of this forums relationship with the MS and Dom over the last 5 years or so. Proof of concept as a theoretical argument is fine but not in relation to this product or any product from the Liontracs stable. There is deep mistrust of the manufacturer because of the over hyped promises that were made in the past about the products and what they could do (not specifically this one but people dont forget when they bought a lemon that was promoted as and i qoute "the mother of all arrangers").

I know this is a completely different product but before you endorse it understand the history of the manufacturer. I am not going to do this but i would bet you the cost of downloading the 59 page (thats right 59 page) manual that it will be very poorly translated into english and fairly incomprehensible. I have calculator manuals with more pages in it . This is a complex machine with incredible flexibility . Where is the detailed guide ?

I wanted to qoute a portion of the Qranger manual that was a feature of the MS to prove my point about poor translations and incomprehensible technical babble but unfortunately all the previous links have been removed.

I think the Mediastation made a couple of missteps from day one. Now, it's becoming increasingly harder to un-ring that bell. The first was to call (or intimate) it an 'arranger keyboard'. Once you go down that road, you expose yourself to every past, present, and future, arranger owner, all of whom are going to tune out every other (in some cases "great") feature of the KB and key in on how it stacks up as a single-purpose, dedicated, gig-ready, ARRANGER. As far as I'm concerned, there isn't a Swiss Army Knife anywhere that will drive a screw as well as a good Craftsman screwdriver.

Next, WORKSTATION. Most of the above would still apply if marketed as a workstation. As Diki has pointed out many times, without application-specific content (in this case, loops, arps, and vast and modern sound libraries), it would be very difficult for it to compete against the the MOXS's and Fantom G's of this world, and the virtually unlimited resources (financial and R&D) of their parent companies. What's left? VSTi player? Practically any modern KB controller and a laptop can duplicate those functions, and at a much cheaper price. Sequencer? Nearly any BOTL sequencer on any BOTL laptop (the same one playing your VSTi's) can more than match anything you're likely to find built into any KB. The problem is, the person with the cash to spring for something like the MS (or OpenLabs) probably already has most or all of these functions. So who needs this 'Frankenstein'? Certainly not the arranger-playing OMB. Not the gigging 'keyboard player' in the local band. Not the Studio guy, who has access to all these functions at a much higher level. Old, retired, well-to-do, ex-Wersi/Lowrey/Bore-everybody-at-the-party types? Nope. That group can barely figure out how to get their email (those that have it). The 'Young 'uns'. Not really. The latest generation of WS's has a stranglehold on that crowd.

The sad truth is, at this point in time, there really may not BE a market for this type of innovative product. If we are to be honest, as much as we wish Dom well and as much as we would like to see him push the envelope to the limit, this piece remains more of a curiousity piece than an object of our desire. What we want is something that comes in and wipes out that thing that we've ALREADY identified as our 'weapon of choice', be it arranger, workstation, super-synth, or whatever. Until that time, any attempt at real innovation (I'm not sure that I consider cramming a bunch of applications together into one platform, real innovation) is going to be met with armies of both supporters and detractors, both with good points to be made. JMO.

chas

you can download the qranger v3.0 beta

here:

http://www.lionstracs.com/store/mediastationmanual-p-144.html

but remember the new version on O.S 3.3 is qranger V4.2

A post like this one really underscores the lack of understanding of an open keyboard.
Imagine if back in the day synth manufacturers were to say why have a sequencer on a keyboard when people already have 4 and 8 track recorders.
Or, why have drum sounds on a keyboard when people already have dedicated drum machines.

If you understand the thinking of manufacturers at that time then you should be able to understand the open keyboard concept.

If you read the quoted post then read my post, you should be able to think of the word that is the cornerstone of the evolution of synths to workstations and now workstations to open keyboards. I will give you a hint, it begins with I.

Man, I'm starting to think everything in your world begins with "I". But it does beg the question, why would someone who so clearly understands all the intracacies and nuances of all things musical, need the advice of a bunch of ignorant slackers such as, well, the rest of us, in picking out a cheapo keyboard for his friend. I think I may have a problem listening to or taking serious any of your future proclamations (aka BS - begins with "B", ends with "T").

chas

Maybe if I say what I've been saying all along this way it will help understand why I see the concept a certain way.........

If I buy a Lionstracs X6 and install just Komplete 6 on it, what advantage has a Motif ES or any closed workstation got over that.

Regards
James

[This message has been edited by Irishacts (edited 10-23-2009).]

Exactly james, and on this I agree totally. But, and this has been my main argument all along, its the operability and hardware that let this machine down.

Dom is always pushing the boundaries, yes, BUT he also has to know when to mature a product then leave it and move to the next.

Users get frustrated with the myriad changes and then the myriad updates and waiting for operating system tweaks to get the new changes to "play nicely" with what went before.

I did not buy the MS for its OOTB functions, I bought it for what I could do with it.
But a complete lack of comprehensible documentation, plus a flaky operating system, and I will concede this was in part due to the flaky nature of Linux running audio applications. (and I even ran Linux Studio on my PC for a while in conjunction with the MS, and it was just as flaky.), meant it was very tough to get this to work as it should playing live.

As a studio keyboard it would pass muster, JUST, and were I in a better frame of mind (as in not as frustrated with it and pissed off) I may have kept it for just that purpose.

Anyway if you decide to take the plunge into the world of Lionstracs,(or if you are being given one pro-bono in exchange for input) good luck, you will need it LOL.. And a strong internal "suspension system" for the many speedhumps you will come across.

Dennis




[This message has been edited by miden (edited 10-23-2009).]

Look, James, the MS comes with 'content' in it too... trouble is, it's basically BS content. Thinking seems to be 'load it up with cheap sh*t, let the owner put the good stuff in on HIS dime'.

Trouble with this is, as I pointed out. ON THE SHELF, all the prospective buyer gets to hear is the cheap sh*t, all he hears on the factory demos is the cheap sh*t, and so far, the number of actual OWNERS that can make it sound a LOT better (which it needs to, to get even close to a T3) seems to be about zero!

All I'm doing is extrapolating...

As with the MS, there is a chorus of people that cry 'you don't get it' but absolutely NONE of them have anything posted that proves in the slightest that they do, either..

SURE... 'theoretically', all Lionstracs products OUGHT to be the most amazing thing you ever heard. They've been out for YEARS now. I STILL haven't heard a damn thing that demonstrates any OWNER has fully realized this potential (and I've heard a plethora of posts that prove they haven't ).

Doesn't the time come in a product's life when 'potential' has to be actually demonstrated? And doesn't that product have to make it easy for mere mortals to realize this potential..? So here, modified, is my new axiom...

If you aren't ALREADY making jaw-droppingly good music on a computer, with VSTi's and loop players, you aren't going to be able to do it magically on the Groove. You have to ALREADY have the talent and skills to do this on a much cheaper computer setup before spending money for something hardware to do EXACTLY the same thing...

How's that? It's kind of like my 'if you can't make styles as good as the ROM ones on your current arranger, buying an MS isn't magically going to be able to make you do it, either'...

Reality bites, my friends

Classic reaction to attack the messenger when one realizes that they have no valid point.

BTW Obviously I would ask questions about a low-end keyboard here on the forum. A lot of the experts on low-end to mid-end keyboards are on this forum so why would I not ask the experts? If I had questions about real life experiences about the Yamaha S900 I would ask them here since most of the members here are Yamaha fans.