But that's my entire POINT, Donny. When making equipment recommendations, what and where YOU play has no bearing on anyone else when it comes to adequate volume for larger gigs. If you don't play the same stuff as Gary, at the same volume, his recommendation is of little worth.

Rather than specify the number of people, specify how close to maximum you can push the gear before it gets noticeably worse, specify if you are playing disco, hiphop or rock to a crowd of under 30 year olds (who are DEFINITELY not "sick of getting blown out every time they go to an affair" ), specify whether they were satisfied with the level (perhaps compare to their usual volume)...

The only thing my crystal balls tell me is that not all of us do the same things to the same people, so expecting the same gear to work is unlikely. "I played to 100 people yesterday' means nothing. Use YOUR crystal ball, Donny Infer from THAT how loud I played...

You can't..! You can only 'guess'.

And if guessing is good enough to base a $2000 PA purchase on, then have at it!

Well that's is exactly my point. That is why I carry two PA systems with me Lg/Sm at all times so I can cover most of my bases for all MY needs with my gear. If I know in advance the audience is bigger then what I have I just make a few phone calls and add more for the gig no problem.Let's face it people are blasting audiences everywhere for no need out there ....why? because they think it sounds better? Phooey! As I always say the more these DJ's & Bands blast away, the more I make .....go figure that out in your Crystal Ball.Or maybe we need KINGFROG back here to figure it all out eh?

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-15-2009).]

Still obsessing about my balls..?

Got two arrangers (say a nice E80 or Audya ), in case you have someone to help you move it? Didn't think so...

The number of players on this forum that WANT to own and carry two PA's, just in case, is probably tiny. Most of us want ONE that covers all our needs.

Oh, and, BTW... ever heard of the VOLUME knob (main fader if you want to get technical)? It's what most people use to not blast out the audience when they use a PA maybe a bit bigger than they need for that gig! If some people are blasting out their audiences, it's because they are NOT using that, got NOTHING to do with the size of their PA... Got more to do with the size (or lack thereof!) of their brains...

So, you are basically saying that, as long as you have a BIG PA for when you need it, the Compacts are the perfect secondary PA for smaller engagements? Because, I don't hear ANYONE ever asking that particular question. And quantifying the point at which the bigger PA becomes necessary is the six million dollar question (as yet, unanswered), isn't it?

For me, what's relevant is, two Compacts = @300W = $2000

One L1/B1 = 750W = @$2000

If you EVER play higher volume gigs, seems like, for the same money, an L1 gets you into the game, at the price of losing stereo. Unless, of course, you can afford (or even WANT) to carry two separate PA's...

First of all the way Bose distributes it's wattage & disbursement of it's sound projection acoustically in a room is the key and secret to their great sound....vs other conventional powered speakers. Many people who have owned the L1/B1 units have switched to the Bose Compact there is a reason for that. When you play a very versatile line up year after year of gigs ranging in many different size audiences and conditions having two Pa's makes a lot of sense, sound wise, transportation wise and for backup. How many NH's have you've done with a big four hr dance gig right behind it same night? the Bose Compact is worth it's weight in gold to have something so versatile that sounds better then anything in it's class period. I would of dumped it in two seconds if it didn't.....if your not doing the same kind gigs then there's no point continuing the argument is there? People are happy with the BC sound, end of story I'd say.



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-15-2009).]

SOME people are happy with the Bose sound... I seem to remember YOU being not exactly in love with the L1 (and I don't recall you being content with 'people are happy with the L1' as a rebuttal to your experience, either )... I play through an L1 rig from time to time. Not going to buy one. Doesn't mean I won't recommend it if I think the buyer needs it for what it does best (but I'm sure going to try and find out what he DOES need first).

Strange how, when SOME people don't like a piece of gear, it's OK to criticize it, but when they change their mind (or, actually, get something different from the same manufacturer), all of a sudden it's 'don't do as I DID, do as I DO'

All we can EVER do here is say 'It works for ME'... But for this to be of any real general value, specifying how one actually uses something in detail makes it more than simply anecdotal. And, I'm afraid, simply specifying how many people we are playing for is of not much value. I can't tell how loud YOU will be playing for 100 people, you can't tell me how loud I would be, no-one can tell how loud Gary is either. Some other way of describing this is needed, IMO.

Maybe 'I had such and such a PA before. Ran it at 75%. This is MUCH louder/quieter/more distorted/cleaner etc. than the old system' would actually help...?

Zuki got all this started by being unsatisfied with the one Compact at higher volume when he was ecstatic at lower volumes. All I am trying to do is pin down WHAT that level is, to better help those asking themselves the same question...

Anything wrong in that?

WOW! Just got home, fired up the PC to check my Email, then clicked on the zone. I see you guys are still at it.

OK, I tried to reconcile this with some science tonight, however, I had a problem. I had not used my old DB meter in probably 5 years, and I forgot to take out the batteries--BIG MISTAKE. That $150 DB meter is now a gooey, white mess inside and well beyond repair. I hope to borrow one from a friend who owns a local music store, or maybe one from another friend who is a state trooper. Yes, a state trooper--they have noise pollution laws here and they are enforced.

At any rate, I don't think any of this will help our friend make a decision about which system to buy, and I DO NOT KNOW what kind of music he performs/plays. I seriously doubt that anyone on this forum plays head-banging rock, but I could be wrong.

If there are some I would like them to identify themselves so I can tell them the Bose L1 and L1 Compact is not the system for them. The Bose does not provide a huge falloff in volume, it does not provide the distortion some folks are used to hearing, and it is not in stereo. It is probably as loud as any system you'll ever use, and that volume level is spread fairly evenly throughout the venue. It provides clear, crisp, clean sounds throughout the human hearing range, even when pushed to higher levels.

Now, for those who tried the Bose L1 and L1 Compact, DIDN'T like them, or they DID NOT fulfill your needs, raise your hands! Hmmm. For some reason I don't seem to see more than a couple--must be something in the computer, How about those that sent them back for a refund? OK. Now lets see a show of hands from those that use them every day (or night), love what they hear, have great audience responses and DO NOT think this was too much to pay for this fantastic system? Now that's what I'm talking about!

Now, I don't perform for young people, that is, those ranging from 21 to 30 years of age. And, I don't go where they go, do what they do, and enjoy the kind of music Diki described. However, I suspect that if you put 350 of them in a room, turned the PA volume up to 120-DB (same as a jet engine), six drunken girls would get off their bar stools and shake some body parts. This would attract six drunken guys, who would stumble onto the dance floor, two of which would pick a fight, two others would begin throwing up, and the other two would steal their beer while the fight ensued. At this point the DJ/KJ/band would crank up the volume until the speakers distorted all to hell. I guess someone may think this is fun and entertaining--just not the folks I know. That's what's nice about getting older.

I sometimes perform for fairly large audiences that range in age from 45 to 65, conventions, corporate parties, major fishing tournaments, jobs that sometimes have audience sizes ranging from 300 to more than 500 people. Most do not dance, but a fair proportion of them will get out on the dance floor. At the end of the night, a significant number of individuals will come to you and tell you how much they enjoyed the music, and some ask when you'll be returning. Ironically, since I began using the Bose systems there has been one comment that always sticks in my mind: "We really loved your voice and the songs you sang. Your voice was so clear I could understand every word you sang, even though we were in the back of the room." My voice hasn't changed in years, and I never had someone make that comment when I used a conventional sound system.

So, when I get the opportunity to measure the actual DB level at a half-dozen venues, I'll post the information. From past experience, though, I suspect that the level I perform at probably falls in the 65 to 75-DB range. This is just an educated guess at this point. Now, could I crank the Bose L1 Compact up to 120-DB? I don't know. Would I want to? NAH! That's kids stuff.

Cheers,

Gary

Wow! Just home from my restaurant gig ... Like most folks here, I play a variety of venues. I'm in my 10th year at a 120 seat restaurant, I do several Italian outdoor festivals a year, as well as several weddings a year about half outdoors - tents and all that. Frequently for weddings, I do the ceremony, cocktail hour, dinner music then do a combo of live and DJ for the reception. About 5 times a year I do an oldies dance gig, country club dinner dance etc. Then there is the occasional house party or office luncheon gig. So, Most of the time, the compact is adequate and other times, I may need a 'thump'.
I do this for a living so I want to use the best tools for the job. I'm fortunate in that I can justify the investment for good equipment. I've owned many sound systems over the years and I think that the Bose systems have a great sound quality-wise compared most of the systems I have heard. At this point in my life, I'm trying to make hauling this stuff easier and Bose does that too. Those years of carrying that Leslie piece of furniture (God bless Dave McMahon - still hauling one) and those Ampeg quad 12's have taken a toll.
Sorry to ramble on so - some of the restaurant patrons provide me with some great wine ...
Ciao,
Jerry

Jerry you couldn't have said it any better...great post. The feeling is mutual all around for many of us "Real Deal Working Everyday Pro's" here for sure.

Hey Jerry

Your gig routine souinds a lot like mine. I use a Roland G1000 and two Carvin LM12 speakers (28lbs. each) with a Yamaha EMX 512 head (500 watts). Plenty for most gigs. For a small gig I just use one speaker. Need to crank it up I also keep my Crate KX220 in the car. Hook that into the system and I can do anything. Curious, what keyboard and system are you using??

Thanks

Bill in NJ

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Bill from NJ

Well we play everything from Jazz to Head Banging Rock, and most stops in between (let's say the exception is Metal and all it's Sub Genres - and I do make a distinction between Metal and Head Banging Rock) to audiences of ALL ages including older clientele venues, Young Club Venues, Mixed Party Corporates, Small, Medium, Large etc etc etc etc etc and, seriously - ETC(!)

The L1 Model II with 2 Subs (and for a few, really big gigs, a Packlite) does - no, MORE than does - the job.

If we really had problems with this system, I would honestly, hand on my heart, tell you guys.

Maybe the only problem The Bose Systems have, as we've all discussed previously, is the far reaching, room filling sound. When we get those problems, we simply turn down.

But then I (and others) have said all this before haven't we?