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#269584 - 08/20/09 02:13 PM Re: I just joined the Bose Compact Club
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 14776
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
Diki,

The lights on the L1 are on inputs 1 and 2. The system will not clip when properly gain staged, even at higher volumes. This is because the input device volume and channel volumes remain constant. Only the master volume is used after the gain staging is set.

Cheers,

Gary
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PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

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#269585 - 08/20/09 04:43 PM Re: I just joined the Bose Compact Club
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Any system will clip if asked to go louder than it can... Basically, you gain stage ANY PA so that at your loudest it won't clip. But the SPL at that point varies greatly from system to system. That's what I was trying to say. How loud does any system go BEFORE it clips out the power amps (not the input channel)...?

Either that or limiters engage, effectively destroying your dynamics. Mind you, that's pretty loud on an L1 system

Those clip lights on the input channels are just that, aren't they? Simply input CHANNEL clip lights... I was talking about the power amp clip lights.

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#269586 - 08/20/09 06:10 PM Re: I just joined the Bose Compact Club
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 14776
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
There are no output clip lights on the L1--just input. I've never cranked mine past the 11 O'Clock position, and that was for a huge outdoor job. I guess you could get the system to distort, but I've never had to play ear-bleed volume levels since purchasing the system, so I don't have any first hand knowledge on what level you need to attain to cause it. Nigel's a rocker--maybe he can shed some light on the subject.

Cheers,

Gary
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PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

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#269587 - 08/20/09 09:19 PM Re: I just joined the Bose Compact Club
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
I can imagine that the L1 goes loud enough to handle most things, but I was particularly interested in hearing about the Compact. With as little power as this thing sports, I can imagine that it is a LOT easier to push it into overdrive.

I really do feel that power amp clip lights (or limiter engage lights) are a must, especially on small systems, just to let you know when you are starting to bump the headroom of the system...

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#269588 - 08/21/09 10:49 AM Re: I just joined the Bose Compact Club
cassp Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/21/03
Posts: 3714
Loc: Motown
The unit arrived this morning and the first thing I did was load it into the van for today's jog. Mistake #1 - I had my CM-30's with me too, but left them in the van. I set the Compact up and started to play - yuk! Very muddy, boomy sound; OK Cass, lean over and adjust the treble and bass - oops! There are no treble or bass controls. Now what do I do? Well, I finished the first song and readjusted the keyboard and channel levels on the Compact. the sound improved somewhat, but definitely not as good as I expected or wanted.

I made it thru the set with few problems and in some places it actually sounded pretty good. The projection was excellent and I only had it turned up to 10 o'clock. I missed the high-low dynamics of the CM-30's, but I heard a couple people in the audience comment to each other on how clear everything sounded. They were very pleased with my performance and promised to hire me again.

So, I guess my first experience with the Compact was a mixed bag, and probably more my fault for poor sound than the unit itself. I'm now reading the G70 manual to try to understand how to change the EQ from the board. That, I'm sure, is going to be the determining factor. I have two more jobs this weekend and hopefully each will see an improvement in my setup.

Sorry to disappoint you (and myself) but this is my true experience. Maybe some of you can help me fine tune my setup to get it to its optimal performing range. It's certainly not a plug and play unit, as it looks. A lot depends on the input signal - something I've never worried about before.

[This message has been edited by cassp (edited 08-21-2009).]
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#269589 - 08/21/09 03:36 PM Re: I just joined the Bose Compact Club
cassp Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/21/03
Posts: 3714
Loc: Motown
read above
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#269590 - 08/21/09 03:58 PM Re: I just joined the Bose Compact Club
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Did you used to use any channel EQ on the CM's?

That might be coloring what you are hearing out of the G70's outputs. You were probably boosting the lows massively to compensate for the lack on the CM's, and probably doing it with the G70's EQ too, weren't you?

I would switch off ALL the EQ in the G70, and just see what the Compact sounds like OOTB. No point doing anything until you HAVE to

Every time I play through my friends L1 system, I have to LOWER the bass EQ on my G70! Those subs always seem a bit hyped in the 200Hz range and downwards. To be honest, after setting my G70's EQ so that it sounds good through a decent pair of nearfields (Mackie HR824), I always feel that the Bose's sound like someone engaged a massive 'smile' EQ, basses get pushed forward, the sound gets brittle, and much of the midrange 'warmth' disappears. It always strikes me as redundant that you have to apply quite a bit of EQ to simply negate the natural EQ of the system and get back to 'flat'...

I hope that it works out for you... the form factor looks amazing. Look forward to your next report.

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#269591 - 08/21/09 09:25 PM Re: I just joined the Bose Compact Club
124 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 2120
Thanks for that, cass. First time out with any gear is more likely to be a bit iffy, prep as ye may. Looking forward to another review down the road once you have things sorted on the Bose.

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#269592 - 08/22/09 08:45 AM Re: I just joined the Bose Compact Club
travlin'easy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 14776
Loc: Forest Hill, MD USA
"Sorry to disappoint you (and myself) but this is my true experience. Maybe some of you can help me fine tune my setup to get it to its optimal performing range. It's certainly not a plug and play unit, as it looks. A lot depends on the input signal - something I've never worried about before."

Cass,

You didn't disappoint anyone, and I hope I can get you headed in the right direction.

A lot does depend upon the input signal, and it must be set properly to obtain the best results. While I do not possess a G-70, I believe some of the constraints are the same with all keyboards.

Set the G-70 master volume to the 1:00 O'Clock position. This should remain constant at all times. If you find there is a need to raise or lower the volume, use the L1 Compact's Master Volume--not the keyboard's master volume. If you raised the keyboard's volume after setting everything up this would tend to overdrive the L1, which could cause distortion.

Set the G-70s global EQs in the traditional smile configuration, taking care not to go below the flat line with the mid-range EQs. In my case, my keyboard has a 5-band EQ system, which has an individual channel range of =/- 10 db, plus frequency adjustments for each channel. If the G-70 has something similar, try setting them at 5,4,3,4,8, which for me was a good starting point. Naturally, these settings will vary with individual venues.

Next, set up the L1 compact, making sure that you are in a relatively large room and both extensions are in place.

I'm not familiar with the G-70 audio output, but I assume it has both mono and stereo outs. Most users have found that the best sound quality is achieved by using a 1/4-inch adapter plug that combines both the left and right channels, which can be purchased at Radio Shack.

If you are not using a Tonematch Mixer, be sure to set the input switch to the Line position. It makes a huge difference.

The L1s master volume should be set at approximately the 10 to 11 O'Clock position. If you see any indication of clipping, red or yellow signal, the input volume is probably too high and should be reduced.

In my case, I position the L1 compact a couple feet to the right of my sitting position, and approximately a foot behind me. This allows me to hear exactly the same volume the audience is hearing. Keep in mind that this is not a conventional sound system--if it sounds loud to you, it sounds loud to them.

I created a couple midi files on my PSR-3000 using onboard styles. These are used to determine which set of EQs I use on the keyboard for that particular venue. The Yamaha allows me to save as many EQ configurations as I want in individual files, and I can only assume the G-70 would allow you to do the same. I labeled the EQ files with the names of the venues, just to make things easier.

If you have any questions, I'll be more than happy to help in any way I can, including over the telephone, which is sometimes the easiest way.

One last thing. If for any reason you cannot get the sound out of the L1 Compact that you like, keep in mind that you can return it to the dealer within 45 days and get a full refund. I only know two people that actually did this, but both said there was no problem with the returns.

Keep us posted,

Gary

[This message has been edited by travlin'easy (edited 08-22-2009).]
_________________________
PSR-S950, TC Helicon Harmony-M, Digitech VR, Samson Q7, Sennheiser E855, Custom Console, and lots of other silly stuff!

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#269593 - 08/22/09 09:59 AM Re: I just joined the Bose Compact Club
Jerry T Online   content
Member

Registered: 09/23/05
Posts: 961
Loc: Phila. 'burbs, Pa. USA
Thanks Gary. That's some useful info.
I'm using the little Mackie 402-VLZ3 mixer. Someone here suggested it, and I would be interested in learning what settings anyone else who is using the Mackie 402, Bose Compact combination, uses. The 402 only has a 2 band EQ 80Hz to 12kHz - Hi EQ (-15 to +15) and Low EQ (-15 to +15). I wonder what the equivalent settings are to achieve "the smile"?
Ciao,
Jerry

[This message has been edited by Jerry T (edited 08-22-2009).]

[This message has been edited by Jerry T (edited 08-22-2009).]

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