I bought an Asus Eee laptop a few months ago but it was defective and sent it back. I've been using an old Dell PC since, occasionally using my bro's fancy Mac with the 24" screen. Now, the Dell has crashed, so, I've been using the Mac for a week. I do think it's superior, but... I honestly don't know if I want to learn another OS.

My gen biz use is docs, spreadsheets, a bit of graphics, and lots of internet. However, I have one biz app that I have to use regularly that is PC only. It's some kind of remote thing where this clerk of court hired this guy to write an app so that we can research the court records online. He installs some kind of remote hookup deal on your PC. So, I wonder if booting up WinXP really does work on a Mac.

I could buy my bro's Mac but then I have the problem with the clerk of court remote hookup. Plus, I don't cherish the stress of learning a new OS. I need to reduce stress! (If I stay PC, I will not buy Vista, only WinXP.)

Plus, even if I buy the Mac, I do want another computer, small notebook to carry to other parts of the house to surf wirelessly and also carry on the job. Mac laptops are expensive, so, that is out. I wonder if the small Asus laptops (like the one I returned) are considered a good buy. About $400.

What to do.

P.S. I guess the point of this is that several friends (including my bro, who is certainly a computer expert) keep pushing me to go Mac, that I will never look back. Maybe so, but the months of learning a new OS, plus the need for PC software sometimes... I dunno. I've been a heavy user of PC's for exactly 25 years.

If you’re heavily into Video and/or Music productions go with a MAC (what they excel at)
However for everything else (Including general Video/Music production) go for a PC (Unless you like the sleek looks of a MAC) as there is vastly more and cheaper software/hardware available, that can easily be updated if required. (At a fraction of the cost to upgrade a MAC)
In addition a PC with the same performance as a MAC will probably cost about half the price.
As to OS, then XP Pro is fine, but Windows 7 blows it out of the water, (what Vista should have been) and is due for release in October. (The Beta test version of Windows 7 left the public release of Vista for dead)
Hope this helps

Bill

Ditto to much of what Brian and Abacus said. Like Brian said you can use boot camp, I have a 22 inch iMac and run "Parallels" instead of Boot Camp. Works for me.

Since my job requires a Windoze enviornment I still have an XP laptop with an additional hard drive that I can swap into the laptop. When Windows 7 was released in Beta form I installed it on the extra hard drive, I'm now running Windows 7 RC1 ( release candidate 1). I've already ordered a copy of the it's final version. Bill is absolutely right "7" is everything Vista should have been and it "blows XP out of the water."

I might add I do love the Mac, but would not spend the premium dollars to get a Mac Book. Not when I could buy 2 Windows laptops for the price of a Mac. Don't be fooled though I have seriously thought about buying a Mac Book.

And re-Ditto.....I also have an Imac, I had it for almost 3 years and I do not miss at all the "Freeze, Spy ware, Spam ware, Virus, etc..."
I see some of my friends that still have a PC and just watch how frustrating can be.
Some have switch to Mac also and they tell me all the time that it was the best purchase they done in a long time.
I am aware that many are concern about the "learning" curve, or if they used a program not available to Mac, that´s why they have boothcamp, or Fusion, that I know, Mac is the only Personal computer that you can run 2 DIFFERENT plataform Operating systems and not be in conflict.
I repeat what I have hear, "When you go Mac, you never go back".

What you get with a new Mac transcends just the machine itself. With your new machine, you get iLife, which is a complete suite of software that is NOT crippled shareware and demos. They are the full versions. Including Garage Band, which is more than sufficient all by itself to deal with most of our member's basic recording and compositional needs.

If you consider the price of Office, Acid, Cakewalk, Photoshop, and the other innumerable apps you will need to purchase for a PC (or remain using the clunky shareware and crippled demoware versions), the price gap slims dramatically.

iPhoto, iMovie, Mail, iCal, and all the others represent mature apps that get the job DONE, simply and without OS drama.

And you can STILL put Windows on it if you are that masochistic!

What's to lose?

Dont wait at all or even ask for it...just go...

It never ceases to amaze me what people are happy to put up with back there in the Windows world.

Get a Mac. And don't look back.

I have been on broadband for well over ten years on a Mac. With, for at least the first five years, not even a firewall. Now all I have is the simple software firewall built in to the OS. No virus detectors, no spamware blockers, no trojan detectors, no po-up blockers, no spyware software... NOT A SINGLE THING.

I have never had a virus, trojan, or malware of any kind whatsoever. I have never had to reformat a drive, or spend money of any kind on computer geeks to 'fix' my wounded machine. All I have ever done is switch it on, and go to work (or to SZ ). How many PC users out there can say that..? Ever vigilant, ever paranoid, ever worried... Why do you put yourselves through that? To save a few bucks?

Just what IS your time worth to you?

Ask yourself this...If Macs were so good why are they the vast MINORITY in the computer world?....there is a reason for this......buyer beware.

Because most computer users are cheap bastards with insufficient knowledge about computers to know what a PITA they are going to be, buy the cheapest thing they can, and then get stuck on it because they don't have enough knowledge or sense to migrate to the better platform.

That's Funny I have never had a problem using a PC...it's plentiful programs & availability is what I love the best.

Well, your experience is hardly what I'd call typical, for the average PC user. There's a REASON there's a Geek Squad in every Best Buy in America, there's a REASON that PC computer support businesses FAR outstrip the percentage difference between Mac and PC users.

Mac share of the PC market dropped from close to 10% down to 8% in January of this year. This means there ought to be one Mac IT and tech support business for every ten to twelve PC support techs. The figures are closer to over one hundred to one (or more). That says a lot, in my iBook...

How short some people's memory gets!

No....how smart one can be after some intense research...btw a few of those friends also dumped their Macs and returned to PC normalcy....I'm glad I didn't get sucked in also. VIVA PC!!

It's called Stockholm syndrome... The ability to fall in love with a terrorist that kidnaps you and holds you to ransom, even forsaking the normal people once you escape..!

Seriously, though, once you have invested that much time in learning all of Windows quirks and foibles, and have familiarized yourself with the available software, it is hard to let go and learn an entirely new system, no matter HOW many advantages there are. Better the devil you know, I guess. How many arrangers did you go through before you returned to the familiarity of your S900? Despite all the flaws you complained about (while you were trying out the others )...

Thing is, love Windows THAT much? Run it on an Intel Mac. Then, when it BSOD's on you, reboot in OSX and get your work DONE...

HEY, DIKI !!! ... I AM not a BASTARD !!! ... My parents were a loving couple who shared a long happily married life ...l

The REST of your post might apply though ... ...

Seriously, I have been a VERY happy DELL user for about 10 years ...

t.

The S900 for now is the best arranger for me to tolerate workarounds for my needs...it ain't perfect by any means. It sounds terrific...But "FOR NOW" compared to anything else out there I'll sacrifice and make music the best I can with it until the day comes when somthing can replace it and do a better job & make me happy..

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 08-15-2009).]

Then you might consider your choice of computer platform along the same lines, Donny...

Although, in fact, you haven't actually TRIED using a Mac for any length of time, whereas your opinion about arrangers at least comes from experience.

Try 'em, before you knock 'em...

If all I did was Internet, Music and Photoshop...I would switch to Mac. But lots of the things I do personal and my company Industrial applications)..I need a PC and a good one at that.

Some of the code I write has some time citical aspect and uses lots of serial port activity's as well. I must test my code on the same type system as my customer is goingto be using.

One of my good friends only does photoshop and the internet...he switched to Mac and found the learning curve rather large...but he likes it for what he does. He spent big money to change. I tried to help him with a couple things and..well I sure felt lost.

So, like anything..arrangers, comuters etc depending on how you want to use it and personal preference there is no one perfect approach.

Lee S.

The thing is, come to a Mac first, you only have an easy learning curve. Come from Windows, and first you have an 'unlearning' curve, then a learning curve. Makes it twice as hard...

With all due respect to you i dont think you know what you talking about...i am sorry.

No doubt you will avoid buying a Mercedes-Benz for the same reason?

Millions of people around the world can't be wrong .....no thanx I'll stick with my PC.

I worked for IBM for 30 years...I saw the very best, most stable OS for a PC come & go ....why.
Developers of applications DID NOT support the OS/2 platform, like they did windows.

OS/2 was rock solid, while 'windoz' was a nice graphics front end but had lots of lockup and performance issues...the kernal was not so good.

Why are the developers of ALL applications not supporting Mac? More have supported it now than before, so that's good.

The Mac comes from primarily an academic backgroud...always strong in education institutions. Strong in graphics processing speed and used a lot in graphic arts & music.

But not much in the business world.

The only real issue I have these days with winows is the fact that you must have anti-spywear and antivirus software because a bunch of real dickheads that shuld be hung on friday noon public hangings are just not punished. Just like a lot of other criminals in this country.

I even wander if the companies selling the antivirus stuff don't pay people to create the virus's??? Betcha they do.

So, just add $40/year for protecton from those jackass's.

Bottem line is..if you already are a PC guy, then why change..it works..and the earning curve is steep.

That's why apple is in the schools, back when I sold commerical systems including PC's for industry, apple was almost giving them away so kids would be familiar with apple. Then the hope was when they grew up they would buy one!

Kind of worked, but not as the hoped.

If I didn't have a computer at all (not many in that category) and all I did is internet, photoshop & music...I'd probably get a Mac

Lee S.

I use .doc and .xls files a lot, sharing with others. I use Open Office on PC and it works fine. On the mac, it is not working very well. It has some bugs. Bro wants me to install the mac versions. Are these files convertible to .doc and .xls, no problems?

I don't want to have to buy software. The mac is expensive enough. PC has much free software.

I switched from a PC to an iMac over three years ago.
It's the best thing I did in regard to a computer.
No more reformatting my hard drive, no viruses, no third party problems with soft ware etc.
Like Diki, I have not had an anti virus program and don't seem to need one.
I'll never go back to a PC on a permanent basis.
You do really get what you pay for.

I switched from a PC to an iMac over three years ago.
It's the best thing I did in regard to a computer.
No more reformatting my hard drive, no viruses, no third party problems with soft ware etc.
Like Diki, I have not had an anti virus program and don't seem to need one.
I'll never go back to a PC on a permanent basis.
You do really get what you pay for.

Just like Macdonalds. "Billions served". Excuse me if I choose to eat somewhere better.

Hey Leeboy,

We have more than music in common. I taught for Cisco and was also a Novell instructor. I saw one of the best network operating systems go by the wayside too -- all for microsoft crap. Saw a lot of very experienced and well trained IT staff get laid off so the "book certified" guys could work at a cheaper rate. Later I went in as a highly overpaid consultant to clean up the mess those guys made.

Oh yea, get the MAC you won't be sorry.

dont get me started.

Hammer

Millions of people around the world all hate the USA. Are THEY all wrong? That's the trouble with a specious argument like that...

You can get millions of stupid people to do ANYTHING. Doesn't mean it is right...

I have a tendency to oversimplify and this will be no exception.

General Business use & Corporate America usually are better off with PC's

The MACs are beautiful & I will probably buy one for my Partner Sandra when her PC bites the dust.

I sell proprietary software for the Auto collision repair industry. A MAC will not work for the software these companies need & use. Many industries are PC dependent. Yes I know the Mac will run PC software but there a good chance it will not be supported by many industries.

I still miss my Atari LOL that was a ton of fun.

So to the original poster, if money is no object go for the MAC

Jerry

Hammer,
Yep, we have some stuff in common.

As I always say, there is the right tool for every job,,,so get it and learn to use it properly and BANG! Job done.

Lee S.

Hammer,
Yep, we have some stuff in common.

As I always say, there is the right tool for every job,,,so get it and learn to use it properly and BANG! Job done.

Lee S.

A couple years ago I bought a mac, nice machine, but a lot of free little programs I used in windows I couldn't get for mac. I use powertracks and I couldn't find a comparable cheap product for the mac. Sure I could get the latest sequencer for 400 bucks but ....
Like others have said I just didn't want to spend any more time learning to do something that I already knew how to do on a pc.

I'm sure that if I started on a mac or switched to a mac after getting disgusted with win 98 I would be a happy camper, but I'm still using xp and have set up my daughters computers using vista and find that I'm satisfied.
At this point I don't want to "reinvent the wheel." As they say.
My niece is the manager of the Apple store so I got a good deal and didn't loose anything when I sold it.

[This message has been edited by mikeathome1 (edited 08-18-2009).]

You can do anything Powertracks can do (and MUCH more) in GarageBand. And, if the need arises, you can get Logic (at about half the price that Cubase demands) and it will open GarageBand projects as is, allowing you to take them further if needed. GarageBand is basically Powertracks and Acid, combined with a bunch of good quality free VSTi's and loops. All for FREE...

The problem is, you can't find something the SAME as your favorite applets from the PC. But you can sure find something that will allow you to do the same thing, albeit in a different way. And often a better, more elegant and advanced way. But, bottom line is, if Powertracks were so important, (or any other favorite PC app), you can run it on a Mac! Depending on the program, you might even be able to run it without rebooting...

I know that you can't come straight over without some adjustment period (Lord knows, I'd need one, too!), but after the adjustment period, at least you are in the hands of a computer company that takes OS stability and internet security SERIOUSLY. You can for sure forget everything you had to learn about spyware and virus paranoia

I have 4 PCs and 3 Macs in my house, and use both, so I do speak from experience.

There are people who simply adore Mac, and will tell you that anything with Apple logo is far superior to anything else on the market. My opinion is is much more temperate.

I think that while Macs work well, and have some nice, polished features, I find the Mac OS not very efficient. For example, for me it is much more intuitive to have the window close button on the top right (like in Windows), than on the top left, like in the Mac). You can resize MS windows by moving any window's border. On the other hand, the only way to resize a Mac window is to grab a little triangular handle area in the lower right corner. This is inconvenient, and if that corner of the window is low enough, the dock will pop up when you move the cursor down, not really letting you get to the resize handle of the window. Of course, those are very minor annoyances.

Overall, Apple hardware is very high-end, fairly nicely designed, and well built. Still, there are more annoying differences which Apple has purposely perpetuating to appease the Mac fanboys and aggravate users like me. It has no forward delete key, so to do a forward delete you need to use both hands - press the FN key in the lower left corner with the left hand, and the backspace key in the upper right corner. There are other keyboard differences, which for me make it much more efficient to type on the PC. I do like the two-finger scrolling of the Mac, which is very convenient. There is only one mouse button on the trackpad (none on the newer Mac computers), but tapping with one or two fingers sufficiently replaces single/double click.

Many people laud Mac's reliability, but in my experience it crashes nearly as often as a Windows machine. Apple tech-support is very user-friendly, if a bit condescending, but beyond the first year, you have to pay several hundred $$ to have it extended to 3 years. With my experience, it was well worth it - I have had 2 hard drive crashes, a faulty battery, and a slew of other failures that required a call to tech support. So if you go for a Mac, make sure to back up your machine regularly (thankfully made easy with the Time Machine backup mechanism, which is a part of the operating system).

As far as software goes, there are simple applications that are built in. IChat is an excellent appllication, but I find that I use Skype more. iCal (Calendar) and Address Book are so-so, and are incompatible with the MS Outlook. Some people find them adequate, but if you are used to Outlook, you may not like them at all (I sure don't). In fact, while you can spend the money and buy MS Office for Mac, their organizer version, Entourage, is also unable to share data with MS Outlook (I did not try going through Exchange, but most private users do not use it anyways). I couldn't find a karaoke player for the Mac (like Van Basco for the PC). There are many software titles that are available only for the PC, and not for Mac, but for most common tasks you can find equivalent apps running on the Mac platform. Even if you don't, all modern Macs (with Intel processors) have ability to run Windows software, using two different ways - BootCamp (allowing you to select booting into the Mac or Windows OS when starting up), or using a Windows emulator (VMware Fusion, or Parallels). I use VMWare, and it works well; still, it is annoying to have to switch between the OSes. You will need to have a valid Windows license (plus the ones for the appropriate applications) for using either BootCamp or Windows emulators. For all serious work I use Windows applications (I have Office in both Windows and Mac, but almost never use the latter). I don't use much audio or video editing, but my overall feeling is that I could have saved $1000 by buying a mid- or high-end Windows laptop.

Hope this helps,
Alex

I am still undecided whether to buy my brother's Imac, which I am using. By the way, the keyboard failed. The x and c keys quit working. New keyboard = $50.

I did get that remote Windows app thing that I wrote about in the original post to work on the Imac. The tech guy gave me a link to a Mac workaround. But, problem is, I can't print, I can only view. So, not ideal.

For a fix for now, I am considering buying a cheap laptop. I have heard so many horror stories about Vista, I am hesitant to buy anything that does not have WinXP. Windows 7 might be fine but it's not out yet.

I can buy a Toshiba 10.1" netbook for $435 locally and it has WinXP on it. Intel Atom processor N280. 1gb ram, 160gb drive.

But I can buy a refurbished Toshiba with 17" screen for $350 (due to a $50 rebate) but it has Vista on it. Toshiba Satellite L355-S7905 Laptop Intel Celeron 585 2.16GHz, 17” TFT, 3GB, 160GB, DVD SuperMulti, 802.11b/g, Windows Vista Home Home Basic.

I have been told that you really can't wipe out all remnants of Vista if you try to install WinXP on it after reformatting. Plus, I'd have to buy WinXP.

The only reason I would consider buying the Vista laptop is because it has 17" screen versus 10.1" for the other. Then again, the little netbooks are small and handy to haul around.

Another concern is buying a laptop that might run hot. Some have had that problem.

Hmmm... not having a DVD drive is a hassle. Netbooks I have seen do not have one. So, that would make me lean toward the 17" laptop, which has DVD. But, it has Vista. Darn.

Any comments?

[This message has been edited by SemiLiveMusic (edited 08-31-2009).]

Bill, my suggestion is avoid a laptop with a Celeron processor. I'd also suggest a full size laptop rather than the netbook. I bought a netbook for my wife and I would not want to use it on a regular basis. Of course, that depends on what purpose you're using it for. A netbook could be handy to use on a gig.

You just may want to wait ( if you can hold out) until October 22 and just get a full sized laptop with Windows 7 installed from the factory. At work I use XP Pro, but at home I'm running Windows 7 RC( release candidate) that I got as a free download. I rarely use XP at home anymore, I'm really liking Win7. If you can't wait to purchase a laptop just be sure you get a laptop the the coupon that entitles you to upgrade to Win 7 for free. Good luck.



[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 08-31-2009).]

Still persisting with Windows? You must be mad.

The netbooks are fine for web browsing and certain other things, but not really sophisticated audio or video work. They are awesome to travel with - I have done it and now have a lightweight laptop on my wish list. The battery lasts a long time, the built-in camera is great for skype. OTOH, with the low processing power of the CPU and small screen, expect to run no more than one or two business applications at once. You should not pay more than $350 US for a 10-inch Atom machine. You can buy an external, USB-powered DVD drive for about $50. It is a bit of a hassle, but you don't need to carry it when not needed. I would suggest that you look for a dual-core Intel CPU laptops for any kind of real processing power. Don't go for the cheapest - it will last you longer. BTW, there are some thin and light notebooks (Dell Studio 14z, Lenovo U350, Acer Timeline) that may provide a good balance between portability (around 4 lbs), battery life, and screen size/processing power for around $600 (without built-in DVD).

Once again, the Windows and Macs machines have some advantages and disadvantages, and I would disregard the advice from anyone who only sees advantages of one and disadvantages of the other. Go for the objective advice, not PC-vs-MAC commercials.

Instead of talking the positives up, perhaps a few Windows users could detail their experiences with spyware, malware and the other shop of horrors that can often be the PC experienced for those that prefer to use the computer as a TOOL to achieve things, and not a lifetime pursuit in and of itself...

Go and ask any Geek Squad pimply faced kid how you deal with a virus on a Mac. Watch their face go blank, as they struggle to think of a time hen that has EVER happened...

What is that worth to you? To simply be able to turn your computer ON, and, with no effort on your part, it always WORKS

After all these years I've never had any of the horror stories you'd like to pretend are routine.
And I can also say any problems I did have were caused by me either something I did, or didn't do that I should have.

As for garageband I couldn't find any extensive midi editing, I'm not saying it's not there but the techs at the store couldn't help, online support and newsgroups couldn't either.
I even posted questions here back in the day and no one could help.
So I kept switching back and forth to do the simple little things on a pc and after a while, even though I wanted to love the mac, I just gave up. I was lucky I had both.

I know I risk the wrath of diki but I'm not saying you should give up your mac and get a pc. I'm just saying there's a learning curve and for an old guy like me that already can perform all the tasks I want on a pc, I couldn't see taking the extra time away from family and friends and all the other things I love to do in my life, just to learn to do the same things with a different machine.


One more important point right after I sold my mac they came out with the intel chip and the ability to run windows, so I never had that option.

If I buy a new mac do I also have to buy a copy of windows to be able to run windows programs?




[This message has been edited by mikeathome1 (edited 09-01-2009).]

I do think that the Mac is likely a better OS. The main problem I have is that I have been PC for 25 years, since 1984 and I know the OS. I am at a point in my life where I do not relish learning a new OS. This is the main drawback. I can do everything I want to do on PC, so I tend to ask myself why do I want to suffer through learning a new OS? I am wanting to REDUCE stress.

There are some things the Mac does that I really, really like. But there are two programs that I use on PC that are pretty much "can't do without it" type programs.

I also think that the Mac is very much over priced. Everything is sky high. And that kinda irks me.

Ideally, I would have one machine and that's it. A laptop.

At this time, I am leaning toward using this Mac until Windows 7 comes out and then make a decision. But then there are those who say never buy first generation of a new OS.

Bill, Here's some more info to confuse you, Windows 7 is really not necessarily a first generation OS. Vista was more like the first generation and Win 7 is now what Vista should have been. There's many discussions on tech forums regarding that. One of the best I've found is winsupersite.com, Paul Thurrott who I don't know personally coincidentally lives just a short distance from one of the offices I work out of.

Anyway I digress, knowing what I know now and not already having invested in what I have in an iMac, a Windows Desktop and a laptop....... if I had to start fresh I would buy a Mac Book Pro using Snow Leopard at least 15 inch screen, I would use boot camp ( I prefer it to Parallels, just personal taste). I would run Windows 7 on the separate partition and you'd have the best of both worlds.

This past weekend I upgraded my iMac to Snow Leopard and installed via built in Boot Camp Windows 7 on another partition. I'm really enjoying the iMac, but I work in a Windoze world. Yea, Apple hardware is pricey no mistake. But think about it Apple makes the hardware and software for their machines. Microsoft makes software that has to run on machines made by many vendors, certainly more of a challenge.

So far as learning the Mac OS I highly recommend taking maybe a one or 2 month subscription to the web site lynda.com ($25 per month) and watching the tutorials on switching from Windows to Mac. $25 give you acess dozens of Mac Tutorials. It's well worth the cost rather than slug thru pages of a text book or getting frustrated trying to figure things out on your own.
http://www.lynda.com/home/DisplayCourse.aspx?lpk2=643

By the way I'd love to see a site similar to lynda.com offer tutorials on arranger keyboards.

[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 09-01-2009).]

I have xp and vista I find them both to be stable safe & effective. I do some digital recording but not a pro or semi pro DAW. I don't do soft synths. Or 3D rendering. I do digital photos but I don't use top of the line pro programs because I don't need it.

At Best Buy you can buy a laptop and they'll give you the upgrade to windows 7 free.
the biggest drawback to a new os is 1. the bugs and 2 not enough people with experience to help you out.
You can make vista look and behave almost like xp just don't use all the fancy add ons that you don't need. I don't use the widgets (?)

"if I had to start fresh I would buy a Mac Book Pro using Snow Leopard at least 15 inch screen, I would use boot camp ( I prefer it to Parallels, just personal taste). I would run Windows 7 on the separate partition and you'd have the best of both worlds."

But that's a lot'o learnin' for a lazy guy like me

[This message has been edited by mikeathome1 (edited 09-01-2009).]

What a clever bunch we must all be!

Despite the NEED for a Geek Squad in every Best Buy across the land, no-one here has EVER got a problem with their PC

Oh, and nobody ever factors in the cost of complete virus, spyware, malware and registry recovery programs to what they pay for their PC... Buy the software, then PAY for endless updates, all for something that, if you believe our PC members, you don't even need! How much does that cost over a four year span (or more?). Plus your Geek Squad coverage, or IT support, etc...

I don't have any virus programs and malware programs on my Mac. Never have. Never needed them. Got more important things to do than deal with that cr@p!